Author Topic: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28  (Read 15612 times)

Offline -Rush-

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #195 on: August 21, 2014, 01:06:08 AM »
Sigh

Offline Lazerr

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #196 on: August 21, 2014, 01:42:01 AM »
I believe a 5k merge, 8k alt cap is in order.. the recipe for anti pick dueling.  :cheers:

Offline JunkyII

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #197 on: August 21, 2014, 01:57:58 AM »

The whine your going to hear after a fight your rule is...."oh you guys only won because we decided this instead of this"

Even if that is part of the fight people are still going to whine about it, you make the fuel load the same for everyone then the person who doesn't use the correct fuel load will not be having many people wanting to DA them...

Prime Example...Surfinn...notice the name change.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #198 on: August 21, 2014, 02:44:53 AM »
You see, it isn't decided, if there had been less of a gap in pilot ability, the fights might have taken longer. We are guessing we are going to fight much better wing men and are anticipating that the fights *will*(hopefully) take longer.

Individual ability and tag team ability are two different things. In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve. I should of thought that was obvious to anyone who has completed their first month. Once the 'kills through skills' faction pick these co-ordinating skills up, and they will quickly, then where will you be? You'd better pray you can take 150% fuel.



If there is anything I do care about in this game is the competition..its one of the main reasons I play it.

 I play because I want to get better everyday and have fun with my squadmates, its pretty dumb and immature to make that assumption.

Ideas about what constitutes competition clearly vary. You care about winning according to my observation and then gloating afterwards.

Perpetually refining one narrow skillset isn't going to make you better. An insight into the reliability of this statement is how you are trying to maintain a variable for your 2 vs 2 setup which favours your approach. If you really cared about wanting to get better and then competing on a higher level you wouldn't be so rigidly result and score-focussed and certainly so 'in your face' to this established community. You have now denied yourself the possibility to learn from others here because no one will help you or explain their technique to you and your own ego is an inherent obstacle to learning.

I can't imagine you turning at the bottom of a furball in a Spitfire to work on your stall fighting. By the way you've asserted your interaction some other AH player will now post a single vid on YouTube and dismiss you.

I warned you about the dangers of bombastically impressing yourselves on this community. Now you are marginalized. Already.



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Offline Slash27

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #199 on: August 21, 2014, 03:22:21 AM »
No sir, I am not. People seem to be trying to apply the same rules from a 1v1 to a 2v2..it doesn't work.
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #200 on: August 21, 2014, 04:25:22 AM »
Hello all,

I'm sorry to butt in, but I was reading this thread earlier tonight, and it wound up raising a number of questions.

Before I address those questions, however, allow me to provide some background:  In preparation for reading this thread, I poured myself a beer, a locally brewed west-coast IPA, and selected a can of Salt and Vinegar flavored Pringles, which I find accompany a beer quite nicely.  I have also found something salty and fried often helps me avoid nausia, which I anticipated of this thread, so I believed I had chosen well in preparation for reading this.

However, approximately half way through my beer and this thread, and exactly 13 Pringles into the can, I discovered, nestled between two of the chips, a shiny, near mint, 2013 Lincoln penny! Imagine my surprise upon discovering a penny in my Pringles!  It didn't seem possible for it to be there -- a penny resting nicely between two nesting hyperbolic paraboloid potato chips.  And yet, there was the gleaming profile of old Abe almost smirking at me from inside my snack can, as if to say "funny seeing me here, isn't it?"

Flabbergasted at the discovery, I hollered to my wife in the other room, "Honey, come here an check this out!", turning roughly 45-degrees and swinging my arm outward, in order to project my voice past the den door and into the front of the house.  This motion resulted in hitting my pint glass with my forearm, causing it to wobble precariously, like some ale-filled top for what seemed like an eternity, until it finally came to rest, right side up, without spilling a drop. It seems the glass being only half full (I generally take an optimists view towards beer) and bottom heavy kept the glass from toppling over.

The serendipity of the event wasn't lost on me, for only moments before discovering the penny, I had considered finishing my beer and going for a refill -- I had several pages of this thread yet to read and was thinking I may need the extra fortitude to go on.  But, for some reason, call it fate, I somehow resisted the urge to down the last half-pint of my beer in exasperation at the thread and take a break for a refill.  Had the glass been full upon my discovery of the penny in my Pringles, my resulting gesture would surely have caused some significant spillage, wasting a fine IPA, potentially damaging one or more of my peripheral devices, and casting a further pall upon this thread.

As it was, this swirl of circumstances left my head spinning; to my left a paradoxical situation whereupon a full pint of beer would have been a bad thing, in front of me a grueling train-wreck of an AH forum thread, and in my right hand, a penny-marred can of salt and vinegar Pringles.

This leads me to my questions:

1) What if I had been engaged in one of these 2v2 duels while I suddenly discovered a penny in my Pringles?  Would I be allowed to bow out due to a Force Majeure incident?  Could I refight the duel if sufficient proof, such as film said incident, were provided?  Shouldn't a Force Majeure rule exist for 2v2 dueling?

2) I imagine "the community" would agree that spilling of any beer, let alone a craft-brewed west coast IPA, constitutes Force Majeure as well, no?  To avoid issues, such as using "I spilled my beer" as a post-duel excuse, should we agree in the rules that all beer glasses only be filled half-way, so as to make this a reliable and consistent factor for all participants?

3) More importantly, what should I do with the remaining Pringles in my can?!  Remove the penny and eat them without worry?  Discard them immediately?  Take a photograph as evidence and return them to the market in order to request replacement?

4) What type of flavored Pringles (or any snack food, if not a fan of Pringles) do you think best accompanies fighting 2v2 duels?  Do you think any particular beverage or snack food may provide an unfair advantage to a duelist?  If so, should this be ruled upon?

5) What do you think I should do with the penny?  Return it with the Pringles to the market?  Put it in my change dish as I would any ordinary penny?  Frame and mount it above my monitor to remind me to remain light-hearted about all gaming things such as Aces High?


I sincerely hope these questions don't lead to further strife and argument on the forums, but your input on these pressing issues would be very much appreciated.

<S>
Ryno
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 04:35:06 AM by Kingpin »
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Offline FESS67

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #201 on: August 21, 2014, 06:07:09 AM »
Just like Fess and I were developing.

He is a genius at thinking through a fight and he knows how to direct a wingman.   Over time, despite my deficiencies, I was beginning to do what I knew I should--because he hammered me so many times. "NEVER SPLIT-S!!"   "WHY DIDN'T YOU SPLIT-S THERE???!!"   I know I drove him crazy, but he is the best leader/wingman I have ever flown with, and the guy I with which I have had the most success.

I would walk through walls for him, even after he has ripped me a new one.

Fess is the only thing/person I miss about THE DAMNED.    Not being able to fly with him hurts me deeply.    Make fun as you wish.  He was harsh...perhaps strict...but fair, compassionate.  Great to fly with.    Can think a fight like nobody else.   Just a good guy all around.   Made this game enjoyable... 

I think you very much overestimate my abilities but thanks for the sentiment :)

I flew with SPIKE in FA and with him flying was almost telepathic.  We just got each other and it was a given where we would be and how we might react.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #202 on: August 21, 2014, 06:45:37 AM »
I think you very much overestimate my abilities but thanks for the sentiment :)

I flew with SPIKE in FA and with him flying was almost telepathic.  We just got each other and it was a given where we would be and how we might react.

That was certainly my goal.  I think our last fight together showed some progress in that direction.

Definitely not overstating a thing.  Your vision and awareness in a fight are exceptional. The accent is always good for a laugh, too.  :lol  :salute
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Offline Changeup

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #203 on: August 21, 2014, 07:27:27 AM »


Prime Example...Surfinn...notice the name change.

Oh Lordy, lmao!!!   Kruel, Surfinn.  How cute.  I wondered where that little whiner went.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #204 on: August 21, 2014, 08:02:05 AM »
Hello all,

I'm sorry to butt in, but I was reading this thread earlier tonight, and it wound up raising a number of questions.

Before I address those questions, however, allow me to provide some background:  In preparation for reading this thread, I poured myself a beer, a locally brewed west-coast IPA, and selected a can of Salt and Vinegar flavored Pringles, which I find accompany a beer quite nicely.  I have also found something salty and fried often helps me avoid nausia, which I anticipated of this thread, so I believed I had chosen well in preparation for reading this.

However, approximately half way through my beer and this thread, and exactly 13 Pringles into the can, I discovered, nestled between two of the chips, a shiny, near mint, 2013 Lincoln penny! Imagine my surprise upon discovering a penny in my Pringles!  It didn't seem possible for it to be there -- a penny resting nicely between two nesting hyperbolic paraboloid potato chips.  And yet, there was the gleaming profile of old Abe almost smirking at me from inside my snack can, as if to say "funny seeing me here, isn't it?"

Flabbergasted at the discovery, I hollered to my wife in the other room, "Honey, come here an check this out!", turning roughly 45-degrees and swinging my arm outward, in order to project my voice past the den door and into the front of the house.  This motion resulted in hitting my pint glass with my forearm, causing it to wobble precariously, like some ale-filled top for what seemed like an eternity, until it finally came to rest, right side up, without spilling a drop. It seems the glass being only half full (I generally take an optimists view towards beer) and bottom heavy kept the glass from toppling over.

The serendipity of the event wasn't lost on me, for only moments before discovering the penny, I had considered finishing my beer and going for a refill -- I had several pages of this thread yet to read and was thinking I may need the extra fortitude to go on.  But, for some reason, call it fate, I somehow resisted the urge to down the last half-pint of my beer in exasperation at the thread and take a break for a refill.  Had the glass been full upon my discovery of the penny in my Pringles, my resulting gesture would surely have caused some significant spillage, wasting a fine IPA, potentially damaging one or more of my peripheral devices, and casting a further pall upon this thread.

As it was, this swirl of circumstances left my head spinning; to my left a paradoxical situation whereupon a full pint of beer would have been a bad thing, in front of me a grueling train-wreck of an AH forum thread, and in my right hand, a penny-marred can of salt and vinegar Pringles.

This leads me to my questions:

1) What if I had been engaged in one of these 2v2 duels while I suddenly discovered a penny in my Pringles?  Would I be allowed to bow out due to a Force Majeure incident?  Could I refight the duel if sufficient proof, such as film said incident, were provided?  Shouldn't a Force Majeure rule exist for 2v2 dueling?

2) I imagine "the community" would agree that spilling of any beer, let alone a craft-brewed west coast IPA, constitutes Force Majeure as well, no?  To avoid issues, such as using "I spilled my beer" as a post-duel excuse, should we agree in the rules that all beer glasses only be filled half-way, so as to make this a reliable and consistent factor for all participants?

3) More importantly, what should I do with the remaining Pringles in my can?!  Remove the penny and eat them without worry?  Discard them immediately?  Take a photograph as evidence and return them to the market in order to request replacement?

4) What type of flavored Pringles (or any snack food, if not a fan of Pringles) do you think best accompanies fighting 2v2 duels?  Do you think any particular beverage or snack food may provide an unfair advantage to a duelist?  If so, should this be ruled upon?

5) What do you think I should do with the penny?  Return it with the Pringles to the market?  Put it in my change dish as I would any ordinary penny?  Frame and mount it above my monitor to remind me to remain light-hearted about all gaming things such as Aces High?


I sincerely hope these questions don't lead to further strife and argument on the forums, but your input on these pressing issues would be very much appreciated.

<S>
Ryno

As a member of the Training Corps I believe it my duty to answer these queries as best I can for the sake of refreshments and duellists everywhere.

1)I believe such a rule should exist. Further more I believe real time streaming via webcam or alternative video capturing device should be mandatory for all 2 v 2 duels. In this way any potential Force Majeure incidents may be addressed promptly and with full HD clarity. This may sound a trivial matter, but I would urge those who do not see the dangers involved in ale wastage, or the potential for life changing discoveries within snack food, to think again. How would you feel if this happened to you? Try to put yourself in this position and visualise the emotional roller coaster that may ensue. This is no light circumstance to find oneself assailed by whilst passing the 15k mark in a 75% fuel energy fight.

2)Half filled beer is a must for 2 v 2 duelling. However, I find the suggestion that a pint glass be only half filled mildly offensive and in the interest of political stability I feel it is imperative that all pints be filled in entirety with the participants being forced, by fair ruling mind, to finish at least half of each pint before the merge.

3)The answer is simple. Remove the two adjacent pringles so as to avoid any contamination. Place these in a ziplock baggy as evidence. Now eat all but the last three pringles at your leisure. Finally, replace the penny on these last remaining pringles and take the afore mentioned photograph as evidence and then, only then, demand your replacement can.

4)Salt and vinegar and real ale are the only refreshments allowed in any 2v2 duel. Any 'light beer' will be confiscated and destroyed. Any snacks boasting the flavours 'BBQ', 'Cajun' or 'Paprika' will be considered doping and the participant(s) disqualified immediately with the possibility to face a 12 hour side switching ban.

5)The answer is simple and can be best described with this short, educational video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEN-iqMlB3Q


Thank you sir, for raising these pertinent and pressing questions.
S!

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #205 on: August 21, 2014, 08:08:30 AM »
This thread is a perfect reason why nothing can ever get solved in the HOR or Congress. Dumb arguements over meanial subjects that can and should be easily agreed upon but one little stupid insecurity like fuel makes it a huge debacle.

It should be the same for both teams.

I don't really think it's ideally fair in duels if you don't bring enough gas and end up losing the fight because you didn't know the gas limits for that plane, while the enemy is using BnZ tactics after an E merge and are too afraid to engage without losing E states. You could play the dive and pull up game every fight, just bring 100% and run them out of fuel this way.

A time limit won't do anything other that allow that E merge fighter team to not engage until late in the fight. Once they get a kill they can stay high so the other team cant get a kill. Time runs out, team with most players win.

If both teams have the same fuel their is no excuse for running out if gas, no stay high and BnZ but there will be pressure to get a kill before gas runs out, and both sides will start evenly, both sides won't have to worry about picking too much or too less to be put at a disadvantage from the start.
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Offline Triton28

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #206 on: August 21, 2014, 08:18:47 AM »
Getting an E Advantage 1 turn into the merge surely has nothing to do with pilot ability..doing it 9 times out of 10 doesn't either. That's for another discussion though, aren't we discussing 2v2 Rules?

 :rofl

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Offline Zerstorer

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #207 on: August 21, 2014, 09:15:00 AM »
Yeah, it worked long before you got here, it will work now, it will work when you're gone.

Likely so, assuming there is anyone left at that point of course.  I'm starting to have my doubts about that one....but I digress.
This thread is a perfect reason why nothing can ever get solved in the HOR or Congress. Dumb arguements over meanial subjects that can and should be easily agreed upon but one little stupid insecurity like fuel makes it a huge debacle.

It should be the same for both teams.

I don't really think it's ideally fair in duels if you don't bring enough gas and end up losing the fight because you didn't know the gas limits for that plane, while the enemy is using BnZ tactics after an E merge and are too afraid to engage without losing E states. You could play the dive and pull up game every fight, just bring 100% and run them out of fuel this way.

A time limit won't do anything other that allow that E merge fighter team to not engage until late in the fight. Once they get a kill they can stay high so the other team cant get a kill. Time runs out, team with most players win.

If both teams have the same fuel their is no excuse for running out if gas, no stay high and BnZ but there will be pressure to get a kill before gas runs out, and both sides will start evenly, both sides won't have to worry about picking too much or too less to be put at a disadvantage from the start.

While I agree with your opinions for the most part, I have to point out the statement in red above did not occur during the 2v2....and both Kruel and Skyyr are considered "E-fighters".  But yes, it is true some might employ the tactics you note.  I think that would be a very small percentage of players, however, because the community would disregard the victories and heap scorn on the "victors".  Peer pressure is a potent force, something which everyone who plays this game should already be well aware....

:rofl

It's interesting how you keep trying to turn this discussion about 2v2 into one about 1v1 "skillz", Triton.  Since I refuse to believe you have ulterior motives for doing so....I am forced to conclude that you have a disregard for wingman tactics.  So why did you choose to participate in a 2v2 in the first place?

 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 09:20:39 AM by Zerstorer »
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #208 on: August 21, 2014, 09:29:41 AM »
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Offline Kruel

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Re: AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28
« Reply #209 on: August 21, 2014, 09:32:53 AM »
Individual ability and tag team ability are two different things. In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve. I should of thought that was obvious to anyone who has completed their first month. Once the 'kills through skills' faction pick these co-ordinating skills up, and they will quickly, then where will you be? You'd better pray you can take 150% fuel.

So what you are saying is that 2 non experienced pilots would give 2 vets ACM problems? Aren't the 2 Vets supposed be better at ACM? Is that not what makes them vets? If that's your experience, that's great, does it mean the same should be true for anyone else? Everyone has different experiences, and opinions. That doesn't make them fact.


I want them to pick those skills up, the more people that do it the better, if your 'kills by skills'(lmao) faction loses then what will they excuse be then?


Ideas about what constitutes competition clearly vary. You care about winning according to my observation and then gloating afterwards.

IMHO, Competition means, like it does in any other sport, is to beat the other team. Who doesn't love to win? Normally I wouldn't shove it in someone's face, but considering the interactions we have had with ChangeUp and Triton in the past 3 months, it is deserved :) its very gratifying to dominate a troll in a game and watch them peck at the keyboard to save face. This wasn't a friendly duel, they know it. Had they beat us as bad as we beat them I'm sure they would be signing a different tune, but they sure would be singing louder.


Perpetually refining one narrow skillset isn't going to make you better. An insight into the reliability of this statement is how you are trying to maintain a variable for your 2 vs 2 setup which favours your approach. If you really cared about wanting to get better and then competing on a higher level you wouldn't be so rigidly result and score-focussed and certainly so 'in your face' to this established community. You have now denied yourself the possibility to learn from others here because no one will help you or explain their technique to you and your own ego is an inherent obstacle to learning.

This is all subjective, you don't know how I practice my flying, or if I am working on different aspects of flying. All you know that my preference is to energy fight not to fight some other way because "the community" does it that way. You can not say any of this with any sort of objectivity. This is all your opinion, which doesn't matter much to me. Now come up with some objective points that aren't based on your opinion and we might be able to talk. Until then it's your 15 bucks vs my own.

Again, you keep referring to learning from others, that is a choice, around here it doesn't seem to be, it seems like people have to pay dues. I don't HAVE to ask anyone for help, that's my choice, some people have the ability to figure things out for themselves you know.

You think I have an ego because I don't ask for help? Sounds like I'm not the one with the ego problem.


I can't imagine you turning at the bottom of a furball in a Spitfire to work on your stall fighting. By the way you've asserted your interaction some other AH player will now post a single vid on YouTube and dismiss you.

I warned you about the dangers of bombastically impressing yourselves on this community. Now you are marginalized. Already.

You can't imagine because your blinded by your opinion. You should follow me around and see how I fight before saying what you can or can't imagine. You wouldn't need to, because you'd know.

Dangers, lol, I'm not even going to address this.