AoM vs The Damned 2v2 Skyyr/Kruel vs ChangeUp/Triton28

[Ack-Ack]

It has yet be be explained how both pilots taking the same fuel load won't work in a 2v2 setting. 


ack-ack

[Zerstorer]

I have accepted Skyyrs.  Didn't happen because it was 1230AM and I had a 8am flight and he didn't want to only fly 1 fight.  You were there.  It was after the 5 v 5.  And if you aren't really their mouthpiece, stop issuing challenges for them.  They're capable of it themselves.  

I wasn't issuing challenges for them.  I asked some questions and made a simple suggestion in leiu of all........this.  

As for the rest, I was on that night but actually wasn't aware of the after fight stuff.  I was mistaken, so please accept my apologies.  

[DmonSlyr]

It has yet be be explained how both pilots taking the same fuel load won't work in a 2v2 setting.  


ack-ack

This thread is a perfect reason why nothing can ever get solved in the HOR or Congress. Dumb arguements over meanial subjects that can and should be easily agreed upon but one little stupid insecurity like fuel makes it a huge debacle.

It should be the same for both teams.

I don't really think it's ideally fair in duels if you don't bring enough gas and end up losing the fight because you didn't know the gas limits for that plane, while the enemy is using BnZ tactics after an E merge and are too afraid to engage without losing E states. You could play the dive and pull up game every fight, just bring 100% and run them out of fuel this way.

A time limit won't do anything other that allow that E merge fighter team to not engage until late in the fight. Once they get a kill they can stay high so the other team cant get a kill. Time runs out, team with most players win.

If both teams have the same fuel their is no excuse for running out if gas, no stay high and BnZ but there will be pressure to get a kill before gas runs out, and both sides will start evenly, both sides won't have to worry about picking too much or too less to be put at a disadvantage from the start.

I explained that here

Edit: actually, explained how different load outs can be annoying and how they can effect advantages and disadvantages.

[Changeup]

It has yet be be explained how both pilots taking the same fuel load won't work in a 2v2 setting. 


ack-ack

At one point in the negotiations before the 5 v 5 they asked if reloading was ok.  They didn't press the issue, I'll give them that but that question goes to frame-of-mind.

[nrshida]

So what you are saying is that 2 non experienced pilots would give 2 vets ACM problems? Aren't the 2 Vets supposed be better at ACM? Is that not what makes them vets?

Try to read more carefully Kruel because I sometimes use big words. I said:-

"In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve".

If that's your experience, that's great, does it mean the same should be true for anyone else? Everyone has different experiences, and opinions. That doesn't make them fact.

My experience is from consistently fighting many opponents on the deck alone in a plane that can't run once in that position. You can ask around if you doubt my credentials. So in this domain I'm inferring I know better than you. Which is a safe assumption.

I want them to pick those skills up, the more people that do it the better, if your 'kills by skills'(lmao) faction loses then what will they excuse be then?

Your skillset will be a subset of theirs by then. Nevermind I'm sure there are plenty of reasons you can find to explain it away.

IMHO, Competition means, like it does in any other sport, is to beat the other team. Who doesn't love to win? Normally I wouldn't shove it in someone's face, but considering the interactions we have had with ChangeUp and Triton in the past 3 months, it is deserved

Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's be honest you enjoyed it a little more than you're letting on. Regarding competition, I know several sticks in this game considerably more competitive than you if studying your videos is anything to go by. Competitive and needing to win BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE are two different things.

This is all subjective, you don't know how I practice my flying, or if I am working on different aspects of flying. All you know that my preference is to energy fight not to fight some other way because "the community" does it that way. You can not say any of this with any sort of objectivity. This is all your opinion, which doesn't matter much to me. Now come up with some objective points that aren't based on your opinion and we might be able to talk. Until then it's your 15 bucks vs my own.

"From a drop of water a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other". BnZ I learned in one month after the last (and indeed civilized) discussion I had with Skyyr. It was as I anticipated it to be. Why don't you spend a month stall fighting and then we can have a talk.

some people have the ability to figure things out for themselves you know.

So many have said so...

You think I have an ego because I don't ask for help? Sounds like I'm not the one with the ego problem.

No I think you have an ego because you behave in an egotistical manner.

[Kruel]

Try to read more carefully Kruel because I sometimes use big words. I said:-

"In my experience two relatively inexperienced sticks can give a more experienced stick more difficult ACM problems to solve".

I think you need to re-read the entire thread, this about 2v2s and bickering about rules. Now you mention a 2v1, stay on topic .

My experience is from consistently fighting many opponents on the deck alone in a plane that can't run once in that position. You can ask around if you doubt my credentials. So in this domain I'm inferring I know better than you. Which is a safe assumption.

Assumptions do not qualify as proper premises for a valid argument, inferring one thing or another makes your already invalid argument inductive in nature, to infer is to admit there
Is a probability that the conclusion of your argument is false. Probably is not the same as surely.

You think I probably don't practice stall/turn fighting.
I can surely tell you that I think it's a stupid way to fight, and I don't care to get caught up in it, especially in a multiple target environment. I try to fight my fight, not someone else's. My 15 bucks vs your own.

Your skillset will be a subset of theirs by then. Nevermind I'm sure there are plenty of reasons you can find to explain it away.

You're getting it now. But not really a need to explain as much as a want to disregard.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's be honest you enjoyed it a little more than you're letting on. Regarding competition, I know several sticks in this game considerably more competitive than you if studying your videos is anything to go by. Competitive and needing to win BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE are two different things.

More than I'm letting on?! I think I've been pretty honest that regard!
Again, you assume that you know exactly how competitive I am therefore can compare , I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just pointing out this glaring hole in your argument. (You're wrong though, lol)

"From a drop of water a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other". BnZ I learned in one month after the last (and indeed civilized) discussion I had with Skyyr. It was as I anticipated it to be. Why don't you spend a month stall fighting and then we can have a talk.

There's a chance your logician could be wrong.

Why don't you spend the rest of your life realizing that I don't HAVE to learn squat, if I am happy with results I am getting with what I choose to learn/practice. This is 9 months in, let's talk in a year or two.

No I think you have an ego because you behave in an egotistical manner.

Yes, but only because arguments like yours," fly this way, don't do this or that" that's not condescending at all  

My argument is this: in competitive flights: You fly your way, I fly my own. In the end one will be left standing.

[DmonSlyr]

I for one was kinda of dissapointed to see this post in the first place.

For one it doesn't really matter, only to the actual participants. For 2, it starts another unnecissary flame war, instead of encouraging competition. For 3, it has made all the participants look bad rather than true fighters for the sport of it.

I do always enjoy competition and I actually like the level of competitivness that kruel and skyyr have brought to the game.

I for one enjoy being the enemy in this game, so I'm glad their are people make it seem like it's a real war, battle, where both teams actually do hate each other.  

It brings some spice to the action and burning desire to shoot them down.. Which is fun.

But this whole thread was designed to make the participants and all the posters look bad by contradicting arguments (who thinks they are the best) and "knowledge of the "game" when it's not  even this issue of the this thread.

In actuality you all F#$@king suck.

Come get owned in the MA tonight

[Kruel]

I do always enjoy competition and I actually like the level of competitivness that kruel and skyyr have brought to the game.

I for one enjoy being the enemy in this game, so I'm glad their are people make it seem like it's a real war, battle, where both teams actually do hate each other.  

It brings some spice to the action and burning desire to shoot them down.. Which is fun.


In actuality you all F#$@king suck.

Come get owned in the MA tonight

YES :#-)##:-)&$@  Someone understands! Good kill the other night by the way, that was me not turn/stall fighting ROFL.

[nrshida]

I think you need to re-read the entire thread, this about 2v2s and bickering about rules. Now you mention a 2v1, stay on topic .

You mentioned pilot skill. My point was relevant to that.

Assumptions do not qualify as proper premises for a valid argument, inferring one thing or another makes your already invalid argument inductive in nature, to infer is to admit there
Is a probability that the conclusion of your argument is false. Probably is not the same as surely.

No but they're a good starting point for an inference.

You think I probably don't practice stall/turn fighting.

Another inference of mine is that people who are drawn to BnZ and defend it with the zealousness we are seeing here aren't very capable in stall fights. Am I incorrect?

I can surely tell you that I think it's a stupid way to fight, and I don't care to get caught up in it, especially in a multiple target environment. I try to fight my fight, not someone else's. My 15 bucks vs your own.

Your $15 bucks argument pertains to the anarchic world of the MA. If you're going to compete outside of that then the rules have to be fair and mutually agreeable. Or is only your $15 dollars important?

You're getting it now.

You'd be surprised how much I get. So much that I wish I didn't.

Why don't you spend the rest of your life realizing that I don't HAVE to learn squat, if I am happy with results I am getting with what I choose to learn/practice. This is 9 months in, let's talk in a year or two.

You're not that interesting. Rather two-dimensional actually. 9 months conversion to this game with how many years in the previous one? What are you going to do Kruel, shoot people down and then brag about it. Ooooh, scary.

Yes, but only because arguments like yours," fly this way, don't do this or that" that's not condescending at all  

My argument is this: in competitive flights: You fly your way, I fly my own. In the end one will be left standing.

Aha! But this is precisely the point isn't it. Your faction does not tolerate other beliefs but interprets them as a perversion from the real purpose. Any different opinion to your philosophy you view as excuses because they lost. You can fly any way you please I do not care and appreciate the diversity. What you can't do (no matter how many times you repeat) is to assert your standing and others not makes you right.

[Guppy35]

I'm starting to worry that some folks who used to have perspective on the game have lost it.  Kinda sad really.  You are all AH gods.  You will have to come up with your own soda money

[-ammo-]

Hello all,

I'm sorry to butt in, but I was reading this thread earlier tonight, and it wound up raising a number of questions.

Before I address those questions, however, allow me to provide some background:  In preparation for reading this thread, I poured myself a beer, a locally brewed west-coast IPA, and selected a can of Salt and Vinegar flavored Pringles, which I find accompany a beer quite nicely.  I have also found something salty and fried often helps me avoid nausia, which I anticipated of this thread, so I believed I had chosen well in preparation for reading this.

However, approximately half way through my beer and this thread, and exactly 13 Pringles into the can, I discovered, nestled between two of the chips, a shiny, near mint, 2013 Lincoln penny! Imagine my surprise upon discovering a penny in my Pringles!  It didn't seem possible for it to be there -- a penny resting nicely between two nesting hyperbolic paraboloid potato chips.  And yet, there was the gleaming profile of old Abe almost smirking at me from inside my snack can, as if to say "funny seeing me here, isn't it?"

Flabbergasted at the discovery, I hollered to my wife in the other room, "Honey, come here an check this out!", turning roughly 45-degrees and swinging my arm outward, in order to project my voice past the den door and into the front of the house.  This motion resulted in hitting my pint glass with my forearm, causing it to wobble precariously, like some ale-filled top for what seemed like an eternity, until it finally came to rest, right side up, without spilling a drop. It seems the glass being only half full (I generally take an optimists view towards beer) and bottom heavy kept the glass from toppling over.

The serendipity of the event wasn't lost on me, for only moments before discovering the penny, I had considered finishing my beer and going for a refill -- I had several pages of this thread yet to read and was thinking I may need the extra fortitude to go on.  But, for some reason, call it fate, I somehow resisted the urge to down the last half-pint of my beer in exasperation at the thread and take a break for a refill.  Had the glass been full upon my discovery of the penny in my Pringles, my resulting gesture would surely have caused some significant spillage, wasting a fine IPA, potentially damaging one or more of my peripheral devices, and casting a further pall upon this thread.

As it was, this swirl of circumstances left my head spinning; to my left a paradoxical situation whereupon a full pint of beer would have been a bad thing, in front of me a grueling train-wreck of an AH forum thread, and in my right hand, a penny-marred can of salt and vinegar Pringles.

This leads me to my questions:

1) What if I had been engaged in one of these 2v2 duels while I suddenly discovered a penny in my Pringles?  Would I be allowed to bow out due to a Force Majeure incident?  Could I refight the duel if sufficient proof, such as film said incident, were provided?  Shouldn't a Force Majeure rule exist for 2v2 dueling?

2) I imagine "the community" would agree that spilling of any beer, let alone a craft-brewed west coast IPA, constitutes Force Majeure as well, no?  To avoid issues, such as using "I spilled my beer" as a post-duel excuse, should we agree in the rules that all beer glasses only be filled half-way, so as to make this a reliable and consistent factor for all participants?

3) More importantly, what should I do with the remaining Pringles in my can?!  Remove the penny and eat them without worry?  Discard them immediately?  Take a photograph as evidence and return them to the market in order to request replacement?

4) What type of flavored Pringles (or any snack food, if not a fan of Pringles) do you think best accompanies fighting 2v2 duels?  Do you think any particular beverage or snack food may provide an unfair advantage to a duelist?  If so, should this be ruled upon?

5) What do you think I should do with the penny?  Return it with the Pringles to the market?  Put it in my change dish as I would any ordinary penny?  Frame and mount it above my monitor to remind me to remain light-hearted about all gaming things such as Aces High?


I sincerely hope these questions don't lead to further strife and argument on the forums, but your input on these pressing issues would be very much appreciated.

<S>
Ryno

Thanks for the great post.  Best in this thread by far!

[BnZs]

Another inference of mine is that people who are drawn to BnZ and defend it with the zealousness we are seeing here aren't very capable in stall fights. Am I incorrect?

The last encounter I remember encountering Kruel in the MA, I spotted a lower La7 while flying an La7 of my own, attacked it, damaged it, but the he forced the overshot and I went *poof* shortly thereafter. I think this may be a data point in both the "Does Kruel suck?" and "Is bnz'ing easy?" debate. *shrug*

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "stall fighting". Would any of these klep in?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf

[jododger]

I can't read any more""..."........"........



FIGHT MORE TALK LESS

[waystin2]

FIGHT MORE TALK LESS

QFT

[Changeup]

The last encounter I remember encountering Kruel in the MA, I spotted a lower La7 while flying an La7 of my own, attacked it, damaged it, but the he forced the overshot and I went *poof* shortly thereafter. I think this may be a data point in both the "Does Kruel suck?" and "Is bnz'ing easy?" debate. *shrug*

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "stall fighting". Would any of these klep in?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/25h3ina2eo9pyhz/2slo_0041.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/flyzozbdoqjvndl/FlymanK4duels.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlri58eybwrrxy7/p51spitIX.ahf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/88j7113n2618knk/P51engagement.ahf

An outlier....lol.