Airspace violation by Russia.

[Someguy63]

This 11 missing airliners from Tripoli International could be a real threat not the Russians; its believed the jihadist from Libya are cooperating with ISIS;
 new ISIS Airline offering cheap one way  flights to Western destination?! 


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/09/04/libya-missing-planes-sept-11/15059169/

That looks bad.

[zack1234]

political dogs and Russia starting WW3 all in one thread.   Awesome.

The Russians are  bit confused why people are complaing, the US and Europe have been having  military engagments all over the world "Iraq" and "Afganistan" are a pretty recent examples.


Its an outrage, its not if the Ukraine is near Russia or has any links to them

The Ukranians are a very liberal people, from what i have read, during WWII.

[Slate]

  Russia helped liberate Finland in the 1800's sort of. 

  Helsinki still has a Russian throne there. Seen on the history channel so it must be true.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Yeah, Ukrainian "liberals" were front and center in Vlasov's army. Hitler was a vegan, after all. What a mistake... that Yalta and Potsdam business, after all. Stalingrad = the death of Western Civ...  

I don't know... I can see both sides of this one. I mean, the ukraine has been under the boot for quite some time. If the boys want another go rolling in the sweat of "the enemy", I guess they're going to have it. NATO isn't going to intervene, especially given that no European has fired a gun in a military engagement since the last time they were "pacified" (with a couple of minor exceptions in LePen's IndoChina or in the Falklands) and given that the US is overestended and functionally broke. That's the Realpolitik of the matter.

As for the "right" and "wrong" of it, I can think of nothing less relevant. I mean, how many divisions do those two categories possess?

[bozon]

This 11 missing airliners from Tripoli International could be a real threat not the Russians; its believed the jihadist from Libya are cooperating with ISIS;
 new ISIS Airline offering cheap one way  flights to Western destination?! 


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/09/04/libya-missing-planes-sept-11/15059169/

They are starting an airline. Why assume the worst? Perhaps ISIS just want cheap flights to vacation resorts. Even a hard line fundamentalist nutjob needs a vacation sometimes. Chopping heads is hard labor and ISIS members have difficulties with getting on normal flights. Try to find the best in people - not everyone is a terrorist... all the time.

"Air Islam"?

[zack1234]

Nato had nothing to do with the Falklands

The US is functionally broke?


Gibberish

[PJ_Godzilla]

Nato had nothing to do with the Falklands

The US is functionally broke?


Gibberish

Yes, I'm aware that the Falklands was purely a UK effort. I'm surprised you didn't want to clarify the same distinction with French IndoChina... then again, I'm not. Nobody was conflating NATO with the Falklands. The point stands. To the vast majority of those in the Eu, marching and shooting is just so passe.

As for the last, Zack, you should know better. In accounting, it'd be under the category "unfunded liabilities"... look into it - then match it against the nation's estimated wealth.  You can do simple math, right? Think of it like a pie. The crust to be filled demands a full colon, but what if you've only eaten three chimis instead of the six required to brew a golden blatz? Well, you could go the "currency inflation" route and dilute your chimis by slugging down a half gallon of water, but that would make each slice of pie quite runny and doesn't really fool anyone.

BTW, that's not to say there isn't vast private wealth in the US - but much of it isn't liquid and, at the scale of confiscation implied by that to which I refer above, much of it wouldn't even be marketable, if you follow.  Don't confuse the two.

Other than that, I'll say no more.

[Motherland]

NATO isn't going to intervene, especially given that no European has fired a gun in a military engagement since the last time they were "pacified" (with a couple of minor exceptions in LePen's IndoChina or in the Falklands) and given that the US is overestended and functionally broke.

I mean yeah as long as you ignore all of the war and genocide that has happened in Europe since WWII
Then again I could also ignore the wars that the United States was involved in and say that no American has fired a gun in a military engagement since WWII either I suppose



Maybe this one's more familiar...

[GScholz]

... no European has fired a gun in a military engagement since the last time they were "pacified" (with a couple of minor exceptions in LePen's IndoChina or in the Falklands) ...

 

[zack1234]

If you want IMF loans you have to be willing to to the line

Oh by the way the Ukrainians are thinking about coming to an arrangment with the nasty Russians

Have the North Koreans invaded yet?.


PJ is ovisously Canadian and also a dog fetler

[PJ_Godzilla]

I mean yeah as long as you ignore all of the war and genocide that has happened in Europe since WWII
Then again I could also ignore the wars that the United States was involved in and say that no American has fired a gun in a military engagement since WWII either I suppose

(Image removed from quote.)

Maybe this one's more familiar...
(Image removed from quote.)

The former Yugoslavia and uk involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan? Surely you jest. Yeah, there were small contingents of many nations involved in the latter -even Dutch and Germans... And yes, there was Uk and French involvement in suez back in the 50's. however, any comparison of these small-scale events and the far more involved affairs that occurred in Europe prior to 1945 is silly from a scale standpoint.

Just run the numbers. You tell me counts of Europeans involved in any of these laughable ( unless you're there as an individual) events... 30000 or so Uk personnel involved in Iraq? With no civilian involvement and hardly any awareness..? Yeah, how does that compare? What? 200 Dutch and 6 F-16s or so? How does that compare to a full invasion and occupation? "Genocide" in Yugoslavia? Let's see, was there even a common market uniform involved in perpetrating that?

No sense of scale... By this definition, the us invasion of Grenada or Panama was D-Day part II.  

To be fair: yes, it is obviously an exaggeration to say "no Euro has fired...etc.", and I even gave some exceptions when I said it. But, please -to compare the prewar and postwar bellicosity of Europe is to compare a continent roiled by mass invasion, war, and violence to.a relatively pacific place -and that point is indisputable on any comparison that comprehends relative scale.

[PJ_Godzilla]

If you want IMF loans you have to be willing to to the line

Oh by the way the Ukrainians are thinking about coming to an arrangment with the nasty Russians

Have the North Koreans invaded yet?.


PJ is ovisously Canadian and also a dog fetler

So who do you think writes those loans? ... And them turns around and finances daily operations by writing treasuries and selling it like cheap wallpaper to any sucker that'll buy 'em? Oh, I forgot, the IMF has its own GDP..., being an highly productive and vibrant marketer of goods and services

As for the Ukies, wouldn't you "see sense" too? "I got my mind right, boss". The arrangement is the same that anyone makes when their nuts are in a vise.

[GScholz]

...however, any comparison of these small-scale events and the far more involved affairs that occurred in Europe prior to 1945 is silly from a scale standpoint.

Please enlighten me as to what military action the US has taken since 1945 that can compare to WWII in Europe without it being "silly from a scale standpoint".

[PJ_Godzilla]

Iraq and Vietnam both.... Neither were as pervasive to the civilians but both are on similar scales, certainly, in terms of metrics like tonnage of bombs, even geographical scale. While the numbers of men in uniform are fractional, consider that, increasingly, the us logistic train is contracted privately. In 1945, most of that train was uniformed but noncombatant.

Also, let's remember why I made the point in the first place -(it wasn't to somehow call the eu a bunch of sissies, which seems to be how people are trying to twist it) and contradict me here if you disagree: neither the US nor Europe is going to got to the wall for the Ukraine... Ie, none of us "Westerners" ( wir Sind alle...) are up for that.

That's where we got off onto this digression. Disagree? How many Norwegians are willing to die for old Mother Uke ( rhymes with puke).

Yeah, me neither... And Vlad knows it.

[GScholz]

Really? Bombing some pajamas clad rice farmers in the jungle is comparable to WWII in Europe. Really?!

That's the definition of "silly" right there.


And yes, if Russia actually commits to a large scale invasion of Ukraine, Europe cannot stand idly by. If Kuwait was unacceptable, if South Korea was unacceptable, so would Ukraine. However, Russia is not going to conquer the Ukraine. At most Putin will try for a land bridge to the Crimean peninsula, but even that is a stretch. Russia will annex the rebel territories, or they will become mini-satellite-states to Moscow. Either way Putin gets the oil and gas there. Putin doesn't need to hold a vast territory like Ukraine with a hostile population. Nobody wants that.