Author Topic: Full Flap Monsters!  (Read 4579 times)

Offline Slade

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Full Flap Monsters!
« on: October 02, 2014, 09:35:04 AM »
I have had some really incredible encounters with Mossies below 10k.  The main method used by the Mossy to beat me was...turning!?  Some guys in Mossies are great at this. to them. 

I have been out turned in 109gs, Yaks, 51s etc.  This is crazy amazing as a Mossies normal ability to turn is 771.

So my question (the context of this thread) is:
What planes turn ability dramatically change to for the better with full flaps?

Please outside of Spits and Zeros kind of thing.  I am trying to make clearer which planes are hidden turn monsters at lower speeds that one would not normally suspect.


Thanks for your comments.

Slade  :salute
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 09:42:22 AM »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline glzsqd

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 09:46:31 AM »
Flaps4u corsair.  A light jug can be a nasty surprise when they stick their flaps out. All 109s have good flaps. Ki84 has crazy flaps once you get sloe enough to deploy them. F6F and P38s have good flaps. P39 is a good flap fighter.


Ummmmm

A20 has good flaps
110 has good flaps
Yak3s and LAs probably have good flaps.
LVTs have good flaps.
Ki43 has crazy good flaps.
    




I think that's it.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 09:55:48 AM »
Dont forget the differences in speed when the full flaps are out.  Some aircraft have a larger turn radius but can easily keep up with the tigher turning planes due to the speeds in question.   
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline darkzking

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 10:16:20 AM »
ki61
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Offline Slade

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 11:41:27 AM »
Thanks for re-posting Mosq's Sustained Turn list.  :)

That explains a lot!
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Offline bozon

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 01:09:48 PM »
I have had some really incredible encounters with Mossies below 10k.  The main method used by the Mossy to beat me was...turning!?  Some guys in Mossies are great at this. to them. 

I have been out turned in 109gs, Yaks, 51s etc.  This is crazy amazing as a Mossies normal ability to turn is 771.

So my question (the context of this thread) is:
What planes turn ability dramatically change to for the better with full flaps?

Please outside of Spits and Zeros kind of thing.  I am trying to make clearer which planes are hidden turn monsters at lower speeds that one would not normally suspect.


Thanks for your comments.

Slade  :salute
The mosquito does not turn well with full flaps. It turns incredibly poor with full flaps! It is better to turn with 3 notches than with 5 notches.
Two reasons:
1. Mossie flaps generate a lot of drag. With 1-2 notches you can overcome the drag if you have WEP on and thus benefit from the extra lift and still maintain a turn. With full flaps (5 notches) you generate so much drag that you can barely sustain a level flight. The only reason to use full flaps is when landing, or if trying to delay a stall as much as possible when "hovering"
2. to extend full flaps, your speed needs to be somewhere around 130 mph (dont remember the exact speed) or lower. This is far FAR below your minimal drag speed i.e. you are way on the back-side of the power curve, which for the mossie is very very steep (I generated a plot of this once vs. other planes). As a rule of thumb, in Mossie VI you never want to let speed below 150 mph except if you are trying to hover. The plane becomes a total pig - it flies, but cannot turn, only wallow, and you will start to feel the strong engine torque to the left.

The 1st notch can be used below 200 mph (or 195?). 160 mph is my normal minimal speed to maintain in a turning fight. This leaves you with a narrow band of 160-200 mph and up to 2 notches of flaps to play with. If you can keep the mossie within these limits and still have WEP, you can maintain a decent turn rate that is competitive with most fighters, except the best turning ones. Without WEP you will simply fall out of the skies in any kind of maneuvering contest. Dips to lower speeds and more flaps must be done only briefly and in a calculated fashion.

Mossie VI and XVI are very maneuverable and fun planes. Quite different from the other birds of AH and way cooler. If you want to learn more you are welcome to look at my Mosquito guide in my signature below.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline GScholz

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 01:23:08 PM »
Real men fly the one-ten...  :aok ;)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline bozon

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 01:57:16 PM »
Real men fly the one-ten...  :aok ;)
Some guys like to ride a wooden thoroughbred. Others like to ride a metallic mule.  ;)
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Zacherof

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 02:42:43 PM »
In game name Xacherof
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 11:44:20 PM »
Slower speed, smaller turn radius.



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Offline mbailey

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 05:53:00 AM »
ki61

+1

Although it usually never takes full flaps to kill
Mbailey
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 02:13:29 PM »
ki61

The Ki-61 has just about the worst flaps in the game.....
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Offline ink

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 02:21:00 PM »
not only that...but I doubt he beat you by straight up out "turning" you

more along the lines he out maneuvered you......huge difference.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Full Flap Monsters!
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 02:32:51 PM »
Plane / radius / DPS

No flaps
Ki-61 / 615.0 / 21.2
Bf 109K-4 / 706.0 / 19.6

Full flaps
Ki-61 / 527.9 / 18.3
Bf 109K-4 / 534.9 / 19.6
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."