Cross Control Stall Tutorial

[Traveler]

A stall is when a wing or portion of a wing no longer produces lift due to insufficient airflow.

Cross control is the use of opposite rudder and aileron to cause the plane to "skid" partially sideways through the air producing a braking effect due to the length of the fuselage "catching" the air.

Glad to be of service to the FAA but they really 'ought to teach you guys this stuff.

Wrong and wrong.  Suggest you read a little. Read about angle of attack  and slip and skid, also a seperate subject a cross controled.

[RufusLeaking]

Wrong and wrong.  Suggest you read a little. Read about angle of attack  and slip and skid, also a seperate subject a cross controled.

On stalls, BaldEagl is mostly correct.

An aerodynamic stall is the point at which the lift produced by the wing is less than the load it is trying to carry. This is the weight of the aircraft in level flight, but can be greater than the weight due to a high G turn (an accelerated stall.)

Most common stalls are when airspeed declines and the angle of attack (AoA) is increased to maintain level flight. There is a point at which the airflow over the top of the wing begins to transition from laminar to turbulent. As this point moves forward on the wing due to the increased AoA, the surface area that produces lift decreases. When the lift is less than the weight of the aircraft, it is in an aerodynamic stall.

BaldEagl’s description of cross controls is spot on. It is rudder input in one direction, and aileron in the opposite direction. It is most commonly used to keep the nose aligned with the runway during crosswind takeoffs and landings. It can also be used to increase drag.

Traveller, the vast majority of folks in this game have no real life flying experience. Lower your expectations and enjoy the game. Emphasis on GAME.

[BaldEagl]

Wrong and wrong.

Wrong.

[DREDIOCK]

I think your average player base probably cares more in how to do it then what the proper terminology is for it.  Most people just do what they do without giving any thought about what its called. Though it is nice to know.

[Skyyr]

Wrong and wrong.  Suggest you read a little. Read about angle of attack  and slip and skid, also a seperate subject a cross controled.

It's not "wrong," he simply left out the word "adequate" or "sufficient." At most, his explanation is incomplete, not "wrong." As a CFI, you should know the difference between a wrong answer and a correct but partial answer, as it's your role to instruct the student to learn.

A stall, as Rufus posted above, is when a wing fails to produce sufficient lift, which can happen for a few reasons.

Further, the explanation of a cross-control stall is entirely correct. You seem to be confusing the conditions under which a cross-controlled stall happens and the definition of the stall itself. The cross-control stall is used to quickly put the aircraft into a departure from controlled flight ingame, which is then used for maneuvers which are not realistic (but are effective in this flight model).

I'm also a CFI.

[NatCigg]

<<self taught in TA and therefore knows nothing.

I have not perfected this move but it sound like something I do to get out of trouble or get a angle for a kill.

seems sometimes i end up pointing down and backwards to my horizontal momentum and have to roll back to regain flight. 

[Puma44]

Someone asked me to teach them how so I figured I might as well post it here too

You want to be going straight up and anywhere from 50-150 IAS, then apply full right rudder, left aileron and elevator.
The result in most low torque planes is a fast transition from nose up to nose down, and can be helpful in different circumstances. High torque planes like the K4, La7 etc are a little harder to do it in, but in those planes you can use the torque to turn around anyways. The only plane set I haven't been able to recreate this in is the 190s (with the exception of 152, which is one of the best at it because of its low torque). I am not responsible for any damage to your plane you may acquire!!

A video on some of the common planes doing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3n12dxz2zY








(dang it wrong section  )

Nice video!  I love to see an opponent do this.  They completely deplete their energy management/control and pretty much stop any forward movement while they flop around in a relatively small piece of airspace, making themselves a fairly stable target to shoot at. This move, although relatively well controlled in the video, only serves to unnecessarily bleed off energy, which is a bad move in an air combat environment. 

[xPoisonx]

Nice video!  I love to see an opponent do this.  They completely deplete their energy management/control and pretty much stop any forward movement while they flop around in a relatively small piece of airspace, making themselves a fairly stable target to shoot at. This move, although relatively well controlled in the video, only serves to unnecessarily bleed off energy, which is a bad move in an air combat environment.  

As I said in the OP, helpful under certain circumstances. This assumes you know when to use it, aka not when someone has enough energy to get up to you. If done right it can be more effective to bleed the rest of your next to none speed to kill someone who is just stalling out, because if you keep going up or try to loop over they will have enough time to dive away.

 

[Puma44]

There are better ways to manage energy against a nearly stalled opponent.  Plus when intentionally cross control stalling it's hard to maintain visual with the opponent.  "Lose sight, lose fight".  Plus, when there's one opponent, there's most likely one or more that you don't see and they are waiting for an opportunity.  It just doesn't make sense to deplete your energy level to that of your opponent.  "Speed is life". 

[FLS]

As I said in the OP, helpful under certain circumstances. This assumes you know when to use it, aka not when someone has enough energy to get up to you. If done right it can be more effective to bleed the rest of your next to none speed to kill someone who is just stalling out, because if you keep going up or try to loop over they will have enough time to dive away.

 

If you have "next to none" speed you're likely doing a stall turn. With a higher entry speed some aircraft come around faster and some won't rotate at all.

Thanks for posting, I'm sure it will be helpful. 

[Traveler]

On stalls, BaldEagl is mostly correct.

An aerodynamic stall is the point at which the lift produced by the wing is less than the load it is trying to carry. This is the weight of the aircraft in level flight, but can be greater than the weight due to a high G turn (an accelerated stall.)

Most common stalls are when airspeed declines and the angle of attack (AoA) is increased to maintain level flight. There is a point at which the airflow over the top of the wing begins to transition from laminar to turbulent. As this point moves forward on the wing due to the increased AoA, the surface area that produces lift decreases. When the lift is less than the weight of the aircraft, it is in an aerodynamic stall.

BaldEagl’s description of cross controls is spot on. It is rudder input in one direction, and aileron in the opposite direction. It is most commonly used to keep the nose aligned with the runway during crosswind takeoffs and landings. It can also be used to increase drag.

Traveller, the vast majority of folks in this game have no real life flying experience. Lower your expectations and enjoy the game. Emphasis on GAME.

First, when someone posts a Tutorial video or document on a subject that leads the reader to assume, rightfully so, that the poster or OP is knowledgeable on the subject and the material being posted or discussed is correct.

The reason to use precise and accurate terms when presenting a technical subject is to remove the possibility of error and incorrect assumptions on the part of the reader/student.
 
Hi-tech Creations spends thousands of man hours developing and fine tuning  a very sophisticated and accurate flight model, one that I personally think is as well done as the phase III and phase IV aircraft simulators I used in my airline and military flight training days.  To refer to any part of the Hi-tech flight  model using improper terms is disrespectful and insulting to the creators of this game.
 
To those who got upset about my reference to this OP tutorial being wrong, and offering their long winded explanation  about wing stall, you had me until you used the words AirSpeed or speed. Sorry you are just wrong, it’s angle of attack and it’s only angle of attack that causes an airplane wing  to stall.
  
My belief that the OP’s video shows aircraft going vertical and performing an “incipient spin recovery” which changes direction of the aircraft from nose up to nose down.

Here are some very quick video’s to help everyone sort things out, enjoy:
Accelerated Stalls in the Vertical

http://youtu.be/0SKh8pTdx0I

Stalls from Skidding and Slipping Turns

http://youtu.be/zfwLglHEYvQ

Incipient, Upright, and Inverted Spins

http://youtu.be/JDEwUlA9WvY

[Puma44]

If you have "next to none" speed you're likely doing a stall turn. With a higher entry speed some aircraft come around faster and some won't rotate at all.

Thanks for posting, I'm sure it will be helpful. 

So, what exactly is a "stall turn"?  It's a term bantered around the forum frequently but, seldom defined.

[xPoisonx]

I think you are confusing this game with real life.

[Someguy63]

Traveler plis leave the thread there was no need to ever say what you did in the first place.

[100Coogn]

First, when someone posts a Tutorial video or document on a subject that leads the reader to assume, rightfully so, that the poster or OP is knowledgeable on the subject and the material being posted or discussed is correct.

The reason to use precise and accurate terms when presenting a technical subject is to remove the possibility of error and incorrect assumptions on the part of the reader/student.
 
Hi-tech Creations spends thousands of man hours developing and fine tuning  a very sophisticated and accurate flight model, one that I personally think is as well done as the phase III and phase IV aircraft simulators I used in my airline and military flight training days.  To refer to any part of the Hi-tech flight  model using improper terms is disrespectful and insulting to the creators of this game.
 
To those who got upset about my reference to this OP tutorial being wrong, and offering their long winded explanation  about wing stall, you had me until you used the words AirSpeed or speed. Sorry you are just wrong, it’s angle of attack and it’s only angle of attack that causes an airplane wing  to stall.
  
My belief that the OP’s video shows aircraft going vertical and performing an “incipient spin recovery” which changes direction of the aircraft from nose up to nose down.

Here are some very quick video’s to help everyone sort things out, enjoy:
Accelerated Stalls in the Vertical

http://youtu.be/0SKh8pTdx0I

Stalls from Skidding and Slipping Turns

http://youtu.be/zfwLglHEYvQ

Incipient, Upright, and Inverted Spins

http://youtu.be/JDEwUlA9WvY

It's HiTech Creations, Not Hi-Tech Creations.
Just though you should know.

Coogan