Author Topic: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)  (Read 4620 times)

Offline Hetzer7

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2014, 03:45:57 PM »
We need a scoring category for that  :old:

Or perhaps an achievement :P

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2014, 04:38:18 PM »
I didn't say uncensor channel 200.  I suggested that channels in the 300-399 range not be censored.

I'm not suggesting that anyone swear constantly or even frequently.  I am saying that occasional swearing should not result in an automatic mute.

Currently the game only allows us to use coarse words like heck and darn.

Currently we have rules that the creator is too lazy to enforce, so we have filters with no common sense that enforce his rules for him, often punishing those who do not deserve it.


WHy swear at all? Get shot down, curse like a sailor, THEN key up the mic and say"heck that guy got me". Whats the big deal?

Offline jeep00

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2014, 06:34:14 PM »
WHy swear at all? Get shot down, curse like a sailor, THEN key up the mic and say"heck that guy got me". Whats the big deal?

This.

And still trying to figure out the answer to it as well. I have rarely been able to muster up much more than "bah!".

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2014, 07:48:06 PM »
I didn't say uncensor channel 200.  I suggested that channels in the 300-399 range not be censored.

I'm not suggesting that anyone swear constantly or even frequently.  I am saying that occasional swearing should not result in an automatic mute.

Currently the game only allows us to use coarse words like heck and darn.

Currently we have rules that the creator is too lazy to enforce, so we have filters with no common sense that enforce his rules for him, often punishing those who do not deserve it.


You dont understand the problem with that though. As I mentioned before. 100 is the default channel. 200 was created under similar pretenses for what you are suggesting. As a result. Everyone, well, almost everyone blew off 200 and then migrated to 200.


Most everyone wants total freedom. Till they get it. Then there will always be a segment that has to test the limits of that freedom to the extreme. And always be another segment that will complain and insist on rules being in place and enforced. In the end the extremists ruin it for everyone because they dont know how or refuse to be responsible. Hell we even see that same irresponsibility with some players that dont cuss but will continually verbally harrass other players and just dont shut up or when to stop. They stay within the framework of the rules. But they push that framework to the absolute limits.

Lets say you get your wish. Everyone will migrate there. Just like they did with 200. Then. A small but vocal percentage will abuse that freedom to excess and HTC will again be forced to enforce the rules as they currently are because they have to do what they feel is best for the whole.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2014, 09:18:34 PM »
Dudley Do-Right, Rob?  

I've never acquired a taste for channel 200.  I didn't like the tone there.  

An overarching issue for this age is the perceived anonymity of the internet.  It has created environments where there seems to be no immediate consequence for bad behavior or poor taste.  There are potential long-term consequences, but that is another discussion.

Some of us grew up on a steady diet of Civics.  There is a notion in it (among many others) that law-enforcement begins with each citizen - not with the police.  If a law is unfair, outmoded, or wrong then the majority of citizens will work together to change it.  In all aspects of Civics there is an underlying requirement to demonstrate respect for the other citizens.  In short form - "Your freedom extends as far as the nose of your neighbor".  Dudley Do-Right?

Some of us grew up in military families and/or served in the military.  It is a highly evolved community based on respect for the rules.  A healthy thing for the group that fights wars to preserve the freedom of all citizens.  Dudley Do-Right?

Some of us live in Texas and know that this state reflects the norms of the rest of the country in general terms.  Dudley Do-Right? - Not any more or less than in any other state, but it is still a norm in most places I've lived to not swear in front of women and children (a demonstration of lack of self control).

Channel 200 seems to be missing the important factor of respect.  Lacking that, it's not worth considering for some of us.  If that lack of respect spills into Range or Country, then it needs to be policed (vigorously).  There are limits to our liberty.  That is a fact.  We all have to operate within that framework.

 :salute

  

Sorry for the wall of text. and not intended as a flame. but merely to explain my intended meaning of "Dudley Do-Rights"

I dont know who the Rob is you are referring.

Dudley Do-Right's are the ones that profess support for liberty. But only the liberties they agree with and with only within the set limits they like. Those they dont they feel they have the right and absolute obligation to impose their brand of liberty on everyone else. Which really doesnt represent anything close to liberty. Just their own brand of tyranny. They are no better then the extremists who never let up and have to see how far they can take things
 Quite often the Dudley Do-Rights arent in the majority but are vocal enough to be the squeaky wheel that needs to be oiled.

The Dudley Do-Rights for example are unlike you who decides they dont like the flavor of 200 and choose to stay off of it. Much like you would change the channel on your TV if you didnt like what was being shown on HBO.

 This would allow others the liberty and freedoms to do as they want within their own realm. No they are the Felix Ungers of the world who cant be satisfied with simply keeping their own house clean but insist on making sure the rest of the world is clean up to their standards as well even though the rest of the world may not want to be that cleaned up.
The Dudley Do-Rights are the ones who, rather then turn off HBO and watch something else. Decide that because they dont like whats on HBO. Then nobody else should be able to watch it. So rather then tune into another channel and watching something a bit more tame like Mr Rogers or Nat Geo they keep HBO tuned in becauser thats what everyone else in the world is watching and complain and complain and complain to HBO insisting HBO change instead in spite of the fact that there may be a great many people who are enjoying the very thing the Dudley Do-Rights hate.


This is what happened with 200. Which was originally suggested as a place to go so people could talk a bit more freely then on 100. The idea being you had to manually choose to be on 200. Nobody was forcing you to see anything. The problem came about when it became THE main channel everyone was on. Try talking on 100 lately? You will hear a lot of crickets before anyone responds. 200 is where everyone goes.
Problem is the extremists have to see how far they can push. How much they can get away with. Which is tyranny itself for the more rational minded
But also the other end of tyranny, The Dudley Do-Rights show up because thats where everyone else is and just like Felix Unger or the HBO parable. They insist that 200 change to meet their cleanliness standards rather then go back to watching Mr Rogers or Nat Geo on another channel along with anyone else that felt the same way.

THAT is what I meant by "Dudley Do-Rights"

  I the end the relatively small number of extremists screw it up for the rational because even the rational minded get really sick of seeing their rants and end up siding more with the Dudley Do-Rights.

I think most of the more rational minded which probably makes up the bulk of people. That is Those that arent extremest or Do-rights would much rather have something more moderate then iron clad rules that are "policed vigorously". Because the rational minded realize that when dealing with humanity. there are no absolutes you can rationally expect everyone to be able to follow 100% of the time. The last suggested perfect person died some 2,000 years ago
I've seen some good ol boys from Texas, And/or/ were/are/ or grew up in the military that can and have been  pretty over the top too.

The problem is the extremists that dont or wont stop. They dont understand that just because you may be able to do something doesnt mean you always should or always have to.

In the end given the numbers of people and human limits. The way I see it HTC has no alternative but to do things the way they do even if they wanted to have a more relaxed hand.  Just too many people to go on a case by case basis.
This is the best and only realistic option from both a human resource and business standpoint.

To be clear you may take note that I have in no way condoned the use of profanity on 200, 300, or any other channel.
Only what would happen if such a separate channel were created for such purposes. We'd be right back to where we are only next time someone suggesting yet another channel. Everyone wants to be where the crowd is


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Offline Rob52240

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2015, 12:23:37 AM »
You dont understand the problem with that though. As I mentioned before. 100 is the default channel. 200 was created under similar pretenses for what you are suggesting. As a result. Everyone, well, almost everyone blew off 200 and then migrated to 200.


Most everyone wants total freedom. Till they get it. Then there will always be a segment that has to test the limits of that freedom to the extreme. And always be another segment that will complain and insist on rules being in place and enforced. In the end the extremists ruin it for everyone because they dont know how or refuse to be responsible. Hell we even see that same irresponsibility with some players that dont cuss but will continually verbally harrass other players and just dont shut up or when to stop. They stay within the framework of the rules. But they push that framework to the absolute limits.

Lets say you get your wish. Everyone will migrate there. Just like they did with 200. Then. A small but vocal percentage will abuse that freedom to excess and HTC will again be forced to enforce the rules as they currently are because they have to do what they feel is best for the whole.

I don't care about the channel that everybody goes to.  I'm never on it and never will be.  I'm talking about the quiet channel that a squad finds and uses amongst themselves.  It's great to have these channels until you type something that offends the program and the program punishes the user.
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Offline Rob52240

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2015, 12:26:15 AM »
And as far as what attracts who...

Obviously the comm rules of aces high are not attracting new players.  Some of you old farts may like it but your herd is thinning out.

And while I'm sharing my feelings, some of you do way too much moral grandstanding.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 12:28:03 AM by Rob52240 »
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2015, 12:57:12 AM »
And as far as what attracts who...

Obviously the comm rules of aces high are not attracting new players.  Some of you old farts may like it but your herd is thinning out.

And while I'm sharing my feelings, some of you do way too much moral grandstanding.

The funny thing is rob, you could play in a small arena with 8-20 players and you'd have some of the best fun in AH you've ever seen.  I've played in those arenas back in H2H in 2005, it's an interesting experience. TA57x hadsome of the most fun arenas around. I sure did learn the fundamentals of AH. But it wasn't till I joined the MA that I learned even further some of the more complex aspects of the game.

What I am saying Rob is that even though the times are low, the game can still be fun with a tiny amount of players. You will even get better that way. 

The new model will come out soon, but this game is still fun to me. 

I enjoy talking crap over 200. It gets the fight going... But I won't hesitate to give a <S> for a fun fight or a nice shot.

Get in the fight and die.. There are a lot of challenges this game offers.
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Offline 68Major40

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2015, 02:39:55 AM »
I don't see how this helps the business.

I do see how it hurts the business.

I'm in my mid 30's and I feel that Aces High is overly family friendly.  I understand that this is Dale's game to do with as he pleases but I don't think that Dale understands that most people outside of Texas like to express themselves at least a little more than we are currently allowed.

I would also like to point out that I have not heard a child's voice in game since about 2010.

I find it ironic that we are encouraged to shoot virtual bullets into virtual pilots but our language can't be any coarser than the word 'Heck or Dang' because that would be obscene.

People who play MMO's have certain expectations, like being able to swear without something equivalent to a nun immediately hitting our hands with a yard stick.

(Image removed from quote.)
 :cheers:

Yeah, 2nd, Also it should be pointed out that as a paid service game AH is more the analogue of HBO than of something like broadcast TV. which is the very point at which we separate the sensor, and anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to buy in. Now I realize as well that that means Dale MAY lose a few accounts. But I can tell you that in 18 months of data collecting for my own curiosity. Ive heard 4 or 5 (not exactly sure, would have to pull a bunch of stuff and look) players who touted the mandatory sensor and mute as one of their main reasons for not continuing beyond their 2 weeks. So I suggest taking a pole and seeing what the numbers are. If  you ditch the filter, how many would you really lose, and of the 2 weekers how many have  that in their list of reasons for leaving. At that point this all becomes a moot debate and its simple math.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #69 on: January 01, 2015, 08:43:06 AM »
I have self control.  But this is not an elementary school or a church.

In my opinion we should at least be able to talk like we're at the DMV when on vox.


In New Jersey DMV you use profanity with any DMV employee and the police officer on duty shows you the door and you are banned from using that DMV.  Seems they want a family friendly DMV in New Jersey.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2015, 08:54:22 AM »
In New Jersey DMV you use profanity with any DMV employee and the police officer on duty shows you the door and you are banned from using that DMV.  Seems they want a family friendly DMV in New Jersey.

Now I know where they got the idea to that South Park episode where they made DMV as a place of worship lol.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #71 on: January 01, 2015, 09:21:35 AM »
And as far as what attracts who...

Obviously the comm rules of aces high are not attracting new players.  Some of you old farts may like it but your herd is thinning out.

And while I'm sharing my feelings, some of you do way too much moral grandstanding.

The point is that the game owner/designers have decided that there is a line in the sand as to what is allowed in language and what isn't. They have also given you a clear channel (squad channel) to use as you will with any language you like.

In a social context, most of the people I work with  or hang out with, or are around in public don't use profanity every other word in public. Im sure a few F bombs are dropped when a hammer doesn't cooperate in private, but in public most people are more considerate. Those that are not are considered immature little dolts that many hope grow up some day.

Cursing is a tool that little boys and girls use to "seem" all growed up  :rolleyes: Unfortunately many don't ever get a clue and figure out that cursing isn't what makes you a grown up. So to many of us this is a request to make a rule change so people can sound MORE like an idiot than they do now. Good luck with that. 

Offline Arlo

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #72 on: January 01, 2015, 11:42:58 AM »
And as far as what attracts who...

Obviously the comm rules of aces high are not attracting new players.  Some of you old farts may like it but your herd is thinning out.

And while I'm sharing my feelings, some of you do way too much moral grandstanding.

Quit being a drama queen. (While you grandstand for the 'right' to type vulgarity - now with the argument/inference that it'll attract new players.:rofl


Offline Masherbrum

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #73 on: January 01, 2015, 11:52:32 AM »
And as far as what attracts who...

Obviously the comm rules of aces high are not attracting new players.  Some of you old farts may like it but your herd is thinning out.

And while I'm sharing my feelings, some of you do way too much moral grandstanding.

Make your own Aerial Combat Sim and implement whatever "pro benefits" that you think will maintain a competent player base.
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: AH is Family Friendly (Circa 1981)
« Reply #74 on: January 01, 2015, 12:13:30 PM »
After five pages I think he would have figured it out by now that constant cussing and vulgarity in a game  is kind of childish and reeks of not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions.. Seriously its not a problem of cussing in the game I think the problem lies within you feeling like you have cuss in order to make a full sentence when talking, and by you calling the old time players old farts just shows you have no knowledge of what respect means. 

 You can cuss all you want on your own squad channel want you just keep it there that will make you  Happy unless of course your squadmates are sick and tired of hearing your cussing.
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