Remember the Canadian Airlines Airbus out of fuel?

[Creamo]

AMFA.

Less pie for pilots, safer air travel, FINALLY. Its coming, 2002.

[Toad]

I wish you the best of luck with it but...

remember: The only thing worse than a Union is No Union.


And I'd suggest you get them to bake a much bigger pie. Because if History teaches anything it's that when the pilots take a pay cut everybody else on the airline does too. You've probably experienced this phenom yourself.

Looks like we're getting into those times again.... Why poor old Wolf and Gangwahl are only splitting $41 million because the UAL merger failed. (They have to be rewarded for the immense effort they put into that EXCELLENT idea.) Only $41 million between them (in addition to their regular salary of course)! So you know times are tough.

What do you think the US Air employees will get because the merger failed?

You're always aiming the gun at the wrong people Creamo.  

[Bodhi]

Toad,

Naw, you missed the point.  Mechanics NEVER do anything wrong, thats why we are gods in our own right!  Why just the other day we received a call to check as to why a thrust reverser was failing to deploy on a "airline that uses tons of contract maintenance".  Further investigation turns out that the whizbangers from the only major contract company still around (it begins with an S) had neglected to finish installing the hookups to the actating servos, and on top of that, had the audacity to get hostile when questioned over it and why they failed to finish the job.  From what little I discerned (I do not understand gibberish English) the shreck up was done in Newark and by contract company, that apparently when the mechanics shift ran out, he simply closed the area up and stopped work.  Meanwhile he still finished out his paperwork stating the job was done so he could get his time credit thus being paid.  When questioned as to why he had done this, he claimed that he could not understand the directions he was given by the maintenance supervisor as his English was poor.  
It seems to me, that this type of crap is going to continue to get worse until enough people finally put their foot down and say "enough."  Institute tougher tests for A+P's and specialise them into areas, and make damn sure they speak / comprehend the language their damn manuals are in.  Hey, it is only worth our lives.

[Pongo]

Originally posted by Ripsnort:


Duuh, no toejam Sherlock!  (Think Canadian as in "the country it came out of.."  ya dip!)

So if someone said an American Airlines 747 blew up you wouldnt think they meant an "American Airlines" 747?

[Baddawg]

Ya Rip quit buggin us canucks  .
May a seagull christen your newly aquired,washed and detailed German Automobile.
 

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Pongo:


So if someone said an American Airlines 747 blew up you wouldnt think they meant an "American Airlines" 747?

Big difference between "An" American Airlines and saying "the"American Airlines

"An" would be designating a specific carrier.

They teach the difference in 2nd grade here in America.

[skernsk]

Holy toejame Rip!  You fediddleing blew a gasket over nothing.

I merely wanted to point out the "possible" confusion in the post.

ie:  The Canadian Airlines Airbus.

You can argue all ya want but it does leave the door open for some confusion.  

Enough said....wasn't trying to piss all over your post Rip.

[Ripsnort]

Skernk, all I have to say is:
"Blame CAN-NA-DA...Blame CAN-NA-DA"
(Think Southpark)  

[Dinger]

Sorry, Creamo, I think Toad's got it here.
Airlines are like any other major operation run by know-nothing MBAs (Think Hospitals, for a similar case).  There's one group of highly-trained specialists who are sacred (Doctors).  There's another group of idiots whose numbers and paychecks seem to keep growing because they're the ones who run the company (administrators).  Then there's the highly trained support staff that actually does the work that's the first to get screwed every time they slash the budget (RNs), as well as all the other associated personnel who just get flushed down the toilet.
But when most people make a decision on hospitals, they think of the doctors.
And, the airline pilots are getting paid a decent wage, and that's so that when something goes wrong, we can blame them.  

[Creamo]

No, no, no Toad, Im not pointing a gun at anyone. Goofing on the pilots a bit yes, but not blaming them entirley for the wage disparities. These CEO's that make 40million in bonuses, and a flying public that demands and EXPECTS to fly a modern jetliner from SFO to JFK for under $200 is to blame. Add in Buch who will not alow airline strikes because, duh, it will cripple the economy.

The problem with the wages is as a A&P you can go to work and make more at Disneyland. Many of the top professionals have moved to diffrent industry. As a example, a crew chief gets paid $1.50 more an hour. And that is supposed to make a highly responsible job competative? People will bid it with little or no experience.

Cutting costs at the maintenance level is absurd, just as  Bohdi said of the contract mtx prove. I've seen some toejam that would flat out scare you off flying. Sometimes I think the pilots realize this, then go back to reading Yahting Unlimited forgetting as soon as it all goes wrong up there, they are just passengers on the way down. Certainly you have seen this" Oh well, you could have chose to fly" attitude, instead of working with the MTX unions to fix a possible pending disaster.


It's a long, LONG topic best left for the union BBS. (good analogy Ding)

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]

[Toad]

I've said it on this BBS before and I'll say it again:

I think you guys are underpaid and underrespected; always have been.

However, the idea that "the pilots get too much of the pie, we need to take some of it from them" is a nice idea, fostered by Management, to get the employees focused on fighting each other....

while they all meet at the ATA week-long parties and brag about their $40 million dollar bonus and how they just nailed their employee groups for more concessions.

(Bet I really sound Republican now, don't I? LOL.)

Bottom line: you want pay and respect, you will have to fight for it. YOU will have to fight for it... no one ever fights for the other guys pay.

In this part of the Century, it's a damn tough proposition. (Of course, it never was easy, I guess.)

As I said, Good Luck to you guys.

[StSanta]

Dinger, I gotta disagree with you a bit  .

My father's a doc. My sis is a med student about to finish off her last exams.

Both work very hard. Both have jobs with a very high level of resposibility - there ain't no rebooting or reformatting if you screw up in that line of work.

Nurses are very important to hospitals - and are under-appreciated. But don't take that out on the poor docs who at least here are overworked big time and make *very hard decisions* that requires of them a lot of the knowledge they've accumulated throughout their academic training and practical experience. Nurses can't do the job of a doc - and in general, docs have a helluva lot more responsibility.

I am glad that I ain't the one having to be out ther, fresh outta med school and facing having to make decisions that potentially could mean the difference between the life or death of another human.

Bureaucratic organisations such as hospitals are generally set up in such a way that routine work can be governed by rules - and 90% of the players involved are necessary, one way or another. All contribute. Including docs  .

[Toad]

Hey Santa....

You know the difference between Doctors and Airline Pilots, right?

Doctors get to bury their mistakes one at a time.  

[eagl]

The only thing worse than a Union is No Union...  Amen brother, but you forgot the military version of the Union, Congress, so...

The only thing worse than No Union is Congress acting as your Union.  From talking to our Nato brothers here at Sheppard, it's the same all over the world when your employer is also the only group who can (by law) be your advocate.  The USAF isn't the only organization losing it's most expensively trained people to companies that seem to give a toejam about them in the long term.

[Dinger]

FYI:  http://www.tc.gc.ca/releases/nat/01_h107e.htm