Author Topic: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster  (Read 10220 times)

Offline Lusche

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2014, 04:17:09 PM »
That says a lot more of how it is used than its performance. Brewsters (the ones I see anyway) are mostly used in base defense at 0 alt. No plane will get any impressive statistics from such usage that places it nearly the entire time in defensive flying. The Zekes are used a lot from carriers on offence which improves their chances of survival and getting kills.

I observe the Brew being used in very similar situations the Spit 16 or La-7 are being found (and formerly the Hurri II had been), short range defensive work and 'furballing'.
Of course, unlike those two the Brewster pilot has to build up his energy first by climbing, compared to those two (but also other planes like the A6M) it's level acceleration and climb rate leaves a lot to be desired.

I also don't find it that much different from for example the F4F, which is very capable a dive and also can stay quite well on an enemy's tail long enough for a kill. But my experience in both is rather limited (I actually prefer the I-16 a lot over the Brew).


I think the main reason for a lot of the clearly exaggerated statements about the AH Brewster is the difference of players expectations based on the reputation of the 'Brewster' (based on very little actual knowledge) and it's thus 'surprising' AH performance.
And this is what was similar when the Sherman VC was introduced. Players by large only knew from countless TV shows that "the Sherman" sucked and that it "took 5 Shermans to kill a Tiger with only one returning". I remember very well it was almost impossible to make people understand that ours a different Sherman with a British high velocity anti tank gun on par with the Panther's 75mm.

Is there anyone who knows a very successful Brewster pilot in our game who you can Q&A in this post? Might be interesting to hear from the Brewster side what those pilots perceive. Aspen has a very good point in his observation about E and ignoring the Brewster to his detriment. I used to get caught by that also. Though it could simply be we are getting a reality check on how slow we are really going versus how the Brewster started it's path toward us


I tested the energy holding capabilities in level flight (which are abysmal). A similar test could be made about holding E in a turn, though I would prefer someone else than me conducting such a test who's able to fly more precisely than I am.
My guess is that here it also isn't much better than similar planes, but controlled beats perception & guesswork ;)
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2015, 10:42:19 AM »
Forgot to thank you Lusche for taking the time and effort to run the tests and present them in a clear manner. So thank you! :)

The results weren't surprising in any way though. ;)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 10:45:47 AM by Wmaker »
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Offline Drano

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2015, 11:32:59 AM »
Just start a high speed climb. Get the Buffalo's nose up just a little bit and you'll walk away from it in just about anything. Other than something really similar like a Wildcat.

Bet there would be an even greater difference if the test was, same dive to the deck then start a 500fpm climb.
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2015, 01:00:27 PM »
PERK THE BREWSTER!!!

 :angel: weaker

the cd for the Brewster is much lower than some might expect.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2015, 03:23:18 PM »
Few know this, but the F8F Bearcat is just a Brewster run on higher-octane fuel.  That was the only change (well, that, and a different paint job).

Offline FLS

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2015, 03:29:40 PM »
Few know this, but the F8F Bearcat is just a Brewster run on higher-octane fuel.  That was the only change (well, that, and a different paint job).

Nonsense. The canopy is completely new.

Offline Squire

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2015, 05:10:59 PM »
Remember it's only overmodelled if it's a plane you don't like.
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Offline FLS

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2015, 05:21:47 PM »
On a more serious note, if it holds E better it's probably because it's not as near it's critical AOA as you are.

Offline Zimme83

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2015, 10:06:00 PM »
The Brewster have excellent high speed performance. Above 400 its handles better than both spit and 109. Of course u cannot stay in that speed area for long. A Brewster never compress  or fall apart during any kind of dive seen during normal conditions and its really fun to just go in a vertical dive and zoom down on a con and force him to start turning so he bleed off speed until u have him low and slow. Its hard to time dough, its easy to misjudge the timing, allowing the con to just walk away.

The Brewster's main assets, besides low speed handling, is excellent roll rate up to around 450 mph so a diving Brewster is something that should be treated with respect. It also have a fairly good climb rate so its not a problem to take the Brew up to 10-12k (best speed band is at 18k so it can handle mid alt decently)

But to be honest, no one is getting killed by a Brewster in a pony unless they screw up.
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Offline -ammo-

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2015, 04:50:55 AM »


The problem with diving away from Brewster is that unlike the zeke, it can reach higher speeds. As long as my speed is close to 300 mph and I have a bit of air under me, I do not fear high zekes - I can easily push them out of their envelope and all they'll achieve by diving on me will be to blow away their E. Brewsters on the other hand will hang in longer in the dive and since they will often start faster then me, the time it takes to accelerate and pull away will give them the opportunity for some shots. Also, it means that if I am not high enough AGL to hit my speed limit, my speed excess at the bottom will not be very high and pulling away will take longer. This makes one feel like the Brew holds E much better than the zeke for example.

I agree with you about Zekes and would like to add another difference that most know  (I assume).  Not only will the Brewster out dive a zeke, but retains good roll authority, unlike the zeke.  Once you dive to say 400+ in say a P-47, I can roll and change direction where the zeke cannot.  The Brewster can and stay with you.
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Offline Slade

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2015, 06:59:27 AM »
Quote
the 'overmodeled' Brewster

I think many times when I encounter a Brew the pilot simply has significantly more E than me.  The Brews acquisition\retention of the E is nothing magical.  A lot of Brew pilots come in from orbit I noticed. I do that many times when using a Brew (coming in from orbit).  Scary being a low slow piece of meat ya know!

Some of the skewed perceptions may be as simple as this to explain.

Lusche great stats as always!  :aok

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Offline JunkyII

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2015, 09:54:11 AM »
Brewster is still easy mode  :aok
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2015, 07:17:09 PM »
Hello junkyii still on the island?
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Offline ink

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2015, 07:47:43 PM »
The true A2A k/d is 0.75 in this year so far, which is one of the lowest of all fighters.

It's also the reason for this little chart I posted some time ago:

(Image removed from quote.)




that is a clear indication of how the MA thinks now a days.... :uhoh


I wonder if the results would be different say the tour I started..... 52...

would there be a "turny" bird in the top ten...1 at least....for some reason I dont think so. :noid

Offline dirtdart

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Re: By request. energy/Speed retention P-51 vs Brewster
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2015, 07:49:39 PM »
Who is this guy ^^^^^ 
If you are not GFC...you are wee!
Put on your boots boots boots...and parachutes..chutes...chutes.. .
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