Another Combat Trim Thread

[xPoisonx]

Combat trim probably kill more P38s in AH than enemy action. Anyone familiar with P38 attack missions where half the attackers lawndart? Combat trim.

shhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Ack-Ack]

Planes that are flap dependent suffer from the use of combat trim.

[Randy1]

Combat trim probably kill more P38s in AH than enemy action. Anyone familiar with P38 attack missions where half the attackers lawndart? Combat trim.

I would have to disagree with you on that statement.  Setting up a dive angle of 45 degrees and full cut or reduce throttle is the key.  I use the dive flap as a backup.  The deal is not reach compression speed as you know.

With manual trim I have dumped a couple in the water on 50 foot NOE when I pushed the nose down to level flight forgetting I had manual-trim on when I switched to auto level.  The change in trim is a bit slow set a forced elevator level flight to overcome a bad manual trim.  Typhoon seems to me the worst at this.

[Someguy63]

I would have to disagree with you on that statement.  Setting up a dive angle of 45 degrees and full cut or reduce throttle is the key.  I use the dive flap as a backup.  The deal is not reach compression speed as you know.

With manual trim I have dumped a couple in the water on 50 foot NOE when I pushed the nose down to level flight forgetting I had manual-trim on when I switched to auto level.  The change in trim is a bit slow set a forced elevator level flight to overcome a bad manual trim.  Typhoon seems to me the worst at this.

I understand why you disagree, because you're a 38 pilot and better at dealing with that aircraft's habits, but in terms of the Bish, what Bozon said is true.

[Zerstorer]

I now turn CT off in AH since taking up flying in other sims more often, if only to keep things consistant and avoid picking up "bad" habits.  

I agree with the previous post stating that manual triming in AH is a pain and that it never seems to get to a "hands off" level flight situation.  In all fairness, most other simulators don't either, but it certainly seems that you can get much closer to doing so in DCS or the various IL2 sims than you can in AH.  YMMV.

[bozon]

I would have to disagree with you on that statement.  Setting up a dive angle of 45 degrees and full cut or reduce throttle is the key.  I use the dive flap as a backup.  The deal is not reach compression speed as you know.

In a dive CT will continuously trim your plane to be nose heavy. This has two effects: 1) if you hold the stick steady, CT will still increase your dive angle. This is unintuitive to inexperienced players and gets them into steeper dives than they intended. 2) since CT will trim full nose down, pulling out of the dive is more difficult.

Of course, an experienced AH player should be able to control these effects, but they are still limiting.

[WWhiskey]

I turn it off for high speed flight and fly the plane with my trim wheels instead of the stick,, you'd be amazed how much faster it will go!

[Randy1]

In a dive CT will continuously trim your plane to be nose heavy. This has two effects: 1) if you hold the stick steady, CT will still increase your dive angle. This is unintuitive to inexperienced players and gets them into steeper dives than they intended. 2) since CT will trim full nose down, pulling out of the dive is more difficult.

Of course, an experienced AH player should be able to control these effects, but they are still limiting.

You make a good case.

I use manual trim in a P38L and do the exact same thing as CT would do but I do not remove the down trim during pull out unless I have really screwed up. 

The problem is the plane starts to shake, then you pull back on the stick out of reflex but it doesn't do anything.  By the time you realize speed is the issue it is too late to cut throttle and save the plane with only a small chance to use full up trim to pull it out.

I too try to limit my final attack altitude to 9,500 above the target.  If I come in a 12,000 say I will sprial down to below 10k then nose over or ride the rudder down for a ways.  My goal is to hit max speed at rocket-bomb drop

[wpeters]

I turn it off for high speed flight and fly the plane with my trim wheels instead of the stick,, you'd be amazed how much faster it will go!

Can u post some pics of the setup

[Slate]

    I've flown with combat trim on for a long time. 

    Recently when I started the AHXRL racing I noticed how much slower I was and the other racers would pull away from me. Since turning off combat trim I've gotten used to trimming the plane every sortie and while not as relaxing it has helped a great deal in dogfighting. Combat trim has a dampening effect on controlling the aircraft and may seem a bit twitchy when first turned off but once you get used to it you won't be wondering how that other guy got position on you anymore.
     Control X will turn it on when needed or on bomber missions.

[WWhiskey]

Can u post some pics of the setup

[bozon]

Just a note regarding WWhiskey's pic above - do not neglect rudder trim. On some planes it is very important as an off center skid/slide ball means your plane is bleeding energy. Some high torque planes require rudder adjustments with speed. Twin engine planes should trim rudder when flying on one engine - the difference is very significant. Those who use rudder pedals can easily compensate, but those of us with twisty sticks or other setups should also be prepared to trim rudder.

The mosquito is a high toque twin engine plane. Rudder trim is very useful for take off (full right), when stall fighting (I use the CT on/off flicking for a rough setup), and when flying on one engine  ( will still do over 240 mph and climb when trimmed).

[WWhiskey]

Very true but I only had two wheels!

[Zerstorer]

Just a note regarding WWhiskey's pic above - do not neglect rudder trim. On some planes it is very important as an off center skid/slide ball means your plane is bleeding energy. Some high torque planes require rudder adjustments with speed. Twin engine planes should trim rudder when flying on one engine - the difference is very significant. Those who use rudder pedals can easily compensate, but those of us with twisty sticks or other setups should also be prepared to trim rudder.

The mosquito is a high toque twin engine plane. Rudder trim is very useful for take off (full right), when stall fighting (I use the CT on/off flicking for a rough setup), and when flying on one engine  ( will still do over 240 mph and climb when trimmed).

Historically several of the planes modeled in AH did not have rudder trim and some also did not have aileron trim. If I remember correctly the 109s only had "elevator trim".  I believe all planes in AH have all three axis modelled with trim, however, for simplicity sake.

[Drano]

I have a button mapped to toggle CT on and off as well as all the other trims. I use it for general travel but will turn it back off when in fighting mode. I fly the 38 mostly and find that with CT on, with flaps out, getting slower, it tends to want to give me more nose up compensation than I'd like. With flaps off, nose low and getting faster it gives more and more nose down than I'd like too. Also, if you're flying the P-38L it tends to negate the effect of the recovery flap. In general I prefer a slightly nose down trim which gives what is to me a more natural feeling of pulling the nose around in a turn than forcing it back down. YMMV.

On what Fulcrum was saying IIRC some of the LW birds did have trim tabs on the control surfaces but some of them were only adjustable on the ground. I guess they went by the pilot's personal preference and just left it at that.