Players to admire

[Arlo]

finally  FLS has it right., as a newbie myself it took a while to learn that no matter how much people complain it is still YOUR responsibility to get out of the other guys gun sight. i once asked about the HO and it started a huge debate with nothing really answered. when i went to the TA i was told the general rule is to get on a players 6 using the best skill you had.well as i found out  i dont have alot of skill and it takes time to develop that skill . so now i have 8 months under my belt still not alot of skill but better then before and  in my opinion rule #1 for me is stay out of the other planes gun sight , if they come right at me and i  have them in my sight sorry but im going to fire. if it looks like they dont want to fire then i will avoid them .its a split second choice i have to make. we cant wait to see if they are going to HO  or not cause most of the time they do. Skyrr philosophy is simple kill everything ,and thats his right to choose his style. its our choice to stay out of his gun sight, or anybody elses . to me so far the biggest issue  is this forum or channel 200 where the sore losers cry and the chest beaters put more bruises on themselves . as for me i will continue to be your favorite target but i get a shinny new plane because it is just a game . and i will joke on 200 after ya kill me because thats my style , now who wants a MAGIC KILL!!

For some of us the thread deviation over whether Skyrr (and his squadies) deserves respect or even admiration in this thread was never about how he chooses to fly but more about how he is a boor on the forum about it. Also, there's the decision to stubbornly form a 'bizarro Damned' squad when there's already an established Damned that has been here for years and has earned the community's respect. Rather poor form.

~~~~

In almost every list, pride (Latin, superbia), or hubris (Greek), is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and the source of the others. It is identified as believing that one is essentially better than others, failing to acknowledge the accomplishments of others, and excessive admiration of the personal self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante's definition was "love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbour". In Jacob Bidermann's medieval miracle play, Cenodoxus, pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the titulary famed Parisian doctor. In perhaps the best-known example, the story of Lucifer, pride (his desire to compete with God) was what caused his fall from Heaven, and his resultant transformation into Satan. In Dante's Divine Comedy, the penitents are burdened with stone slabs on their necks which force them to keep their heads bowed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

(On reflection, I see some irony in the accusation I make regarding a deadly sin and 'Bizarro Damned.')

[Skyyr]

For some of us the thread deviation over whether Skyrr (and his squadies) deserves respect or even admiration in this thread was never about how he chooses to fly but more about how he is a boor on the forum about it.

Actually, I've never insisted that anyone adopt my mentality. I think all players should fly the way they best enjoy the game. The only time I've spoken up is in response to the claims that "flying historically" is somehow wrong or less-skilled, and that pursuing anything other than your kill, win, or goal is somehow selfish.

This is a WWII air combat sim, so those tactics apply directly. You can disagree and leave it at that, but to say that I or anyone else is wrong for pursuing time-accurate tactics is backwards to both established ACM doctrine and to critical thinking. The burden of proof lies with the "gamers" to show that their "No HO," "pursue the prolonged turnfight," "stay out of someone else's 1v1" approach is objectively equal or superior to the established air combat tactics of the last 70+ years. And to date, not one person has come up with anything other than subjective responses ("it's not fun," "it's not honorable," etc.). If they could quantify their argument with a statement like "pilots who don't HO have a 34% higher survival rate" and then prove it (again, using tangible data), guess what? I'd concede, and so would any other results-based pilot. I'm not interested in proving my way, I'm simply interested in accepting the most efficient way... whatever that way might be. That's objectivity; but to date, no one has done that.

Fun is subjective. My fun is not your fun and no two people can ever fully be in agreement over what constitutes fun. The same goes for honor, respect, and so forth.

Play the way you want, but don't use subjectivity to defend you're stance that everyone should play the way you want them to.

(On reflection, I see some irony in the accusation I make regarding a deadly sin and 'Bizarro Damned.')

There's lots of ironies with the accusations we receive. Thanks for having the insight to point that out.

-=S=-

[Guppy35]

So let's simplify things.   The thread was started by someone who wanted to recognize players that are admired.  One of your minions and yourself managed to derail that.

So to get it back on track.   You fly the way you want to.  I find nothing to admire in it or in how you've presented yourself here.  So to that end should you wish to continue to continue spewing your manifesto at us, please start your own thread.

And no you don't need to reply as that would continue to derail the thread. 

[Skyyr]

One of your minions and yourself managed to derail that.

Not correct. Please see where we were brought up long before I ever replied:

poison/skydurp/kruel  

Just waiting for the inevitable Kruel  “SKYYLU AKBAH” post.

FLS summed it up quite well:

The notion that his approach to  game play is wrong is simply false.  Your point is about his approach to the community.
That would be a different conversation and it wouldn't be about his flying.

We never derailed anything nor intended to. Rather, it was the posters who can't separate between objectivity and their personal bias, as pointed out in the quote above.

I'm always willing to leave it at "I agree to disagree," as long as you can differentiate between fact and objectivity versus opinion and subjectivity.

[Guppy35]

Not correct. Please see where we were brought up long before I ever replied:

FLS summed it up quite well:

We never derailed anything nor intended to. Rather, it was the posters who can't separate between objectivity and their personal bias, as pointed out in the quote above.

Try again  9th post in the thread.  Had been no mention of you or minions prior to that post which had nothing to do with the OP.

Minion posted totally off topic and that's where it started.  Please at least attempt to be accurate. 

[-ammo-]

Not correct. Please see where we were brought up long before I ever replied:

FLS summed it up quite well:

We never derailed anything nor intended to. Rather, it was the posters who can't separate between objectivity and their personal bias, as pointed out in the quote above.

I'm always willing to leave it at "I agree to disagree," as long as you can differentiate between fact and objectivity versus opinion and subjectivity.

It's not personal, but collective in nature. Certainly you note that.  As you continue to show the arse you are, you will continue to receive the ridicule you richly deserve.  FLS is right, at least I don't have have a problem with the way you fly - it's your thoughts displayed through your keyboard which are pathetic and at the same time, entertaining.

[Arlo]

Actually, I've never insisted that anyone adopt my mentality. I think all players should fly the way they best enjoy the game.

Again, beside the point (not the point I'm addressing). I've been the champion of 'flying any way you want as long as the game allows it' for probably longer than you knew about online MMOG dogfighting. Every player, every squadron has it's own 'ideals.'

What I wonder about is your personal attachment to being identified as a member of 'The Damned' although you admit to being philosophically opposed to the the existing AH squad to the point of forming a different squadron with the same name? There have been differences like this in the past (in our community) without the name hijacking. This isn't like the 'Claim Jumpers' (who are merely forming more squadrons due to squad size limitations - that horde). What you're doing is more akin to 'divorce' and while I can see your attachment to a name (many ex-wives stay attached to such*, along with property and money) is there no other potentially cool name you could adopt?

Hell, you could be:

The Fighter Aces
The Young Guns
Purgatory (not quite damned)

Just don't pick 'The Jolly Rogers (DFC)' (if you would be so kind).  

*And yes, I know you used 'The Damned' in FA and if 'The Damned' here had folded before you joined AH I wouldn't find your use of the name in poor form here.

Oh, and humility is a fine trait, even in a virtual fighter combat world where, supposedly, egos 'rule.'  

Edit: (Apologies, Dan - I shall leave this for another thread is such emerges.)

[Masherbrum]

I don't and will never recognize his version of The Damned.

[Skyyr]

It's not personal, but collective in nature. Certainly you note that.  As you continue to show the arse you are, you will continue to receive the ridicule you richly deserve.  FLS is right, at least I don't have have a problem with the way you fly - it's your thoughts displayed through your keyboard which are pathetic and at the same time, entertaining.

See here for reference: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/415651-Turnfighting-more-difficult-than-boom-and-zoom-Forums

This is a thread in IL2, and it's not a very uncommon subject. In almost every other sim, turnfighting is viewed as unskilled, yet intuitive and energy fighting is the skilled approach. And this is a tame thread, where the views are split somewhat. Wait until you get into competition ladders and see what the top players' true opinions are of "turnfighting," "HO'ing" (actually called deflection shots elsewhere), and so forth. It's a stark difference to the "it's unskilled and lame" comments here.

I could post numerous other links showing that my views are not only normal, but that they are quite common and completely validated across air combat sims as a genre. These views are validated because they're almost entirely results-based (i.e. objective). My views and playstyle stem from that.

The "collective" can ridicule me all day long, and it bounces right off, because for every player claiming I'm pathetic for being forthright, there's 1,000+ across the genre as a whole proving I'm right. I'm not going to stop posting the truth of the matter just because a collective (ironic choice of words) thinks otherwise.

[Arlo]

 

[-ammo-]

And the truth eludes you

[guncrasher]

skyyr while contrary to some here most players dont despise you.  most players dont really care about you or anybody else, well except midway he was really hated by like 90%.

so while I agree with what you posted and I hate all the others for making me agree with you.  just stop posting as it doesnt matter who's right or wrong but the truth is that now most are just regurgitating what was posted before.

and thanks for making me use a big word I havent used since highschool  .


semp

[-ammo-]

Speaking to everyone, not just skyyr.

This game has a community - unlike CoD or Halo, people matter here.  Skyyr's fighter pilot skills have improved immensely and leads to the point I want taken. He has so much to offer but he has ruined his credibility by his own keyboard.  Imagine if the guy wasn't a self licking ice cream cone what he could offer to HTC and this community.

[DmonSlyr]

Some players I've admired over my years in AH. Some are based on skill and others are based on what they offered me in AH.

1. Cooley and DH376th.
      -These dudes brought me into the squad when I first started in the MA. They showed 2 tricks that have benefited my flying 100% and I always still use today. They taught me how to dive bomb, bomb, tank, and capture bases with a 110 raid using squad tactics. These guys really taught me a lot to the game other than just dogfighting.

2. Bighorn and Batfink
      -while being known as some of the best players in AH. These guys kicked my arse over and over again in the DA when I was learning to duel. They taught me so much about dueling and helping to get better. Some of the nicest lads in the game aswell.

3. TA57
        - have been fkying with this guy since H2H and he just a really cool dude. He has made his own squad and continues to play the game today. But we have had many great fights and a lot of great convos.

4. Grizz, Sunfanz, tonyjoey, krupnski, Latrobe, many members from the Blue Knights and AoM I highly admire as being some of the best sticks in AH. We have had hella battles and victories together, many great duels, and lots of fun all around playing this game.

5. Changeup, skyrock, and bear76
      -  They have been over whelmingly generous to give me a headset, rudder peddles, and an SSD card. A  players generosity like these 3 have been more than admirable and thankful to me and AH.

<S>

[Arlo]

Speaking to everyone, not just skyyr.

This game has a community - unlike CoD or Halo, people matter here.  Skyyr's fighter pilot skills have improved immensely and leads to the point I want taken. He has so much to offer but he has ruined his credibility by his own keyboard.  Imagine if the guy wasn't a self licking ice cream cone what he could offer to HTC and this community.

I'm sorry. I know I said I wouldn't contribute more but .... I just couldn't resist this one.

Introducing a squadron patch: