Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat.... Pretty sporty.

[JOACH1M]

Stock Challenger/Mustang/Camaro cannot be compared to those T/A series cars.   No way, no how.   Having driven a souped up Roush Challenger T/A, I was not a fan of the understeer.   But since we're now peddling a "forced to buy an automatic" Charger.   No thanks.   They will end up being mall crawlers.

I priced out a charger hellcat for toejams and giggles and was quite bothered that it didn't have the manual option. That takes away from the whole sports car them... Even my truck is a manual, its like my little sports car...but bigger   #SRT6

Ain't no doubt about it - the Hellcat cars are beasts.  I've read where they are very docile and pleasant to drive until you go full throttle.  Then things get quite violent.

I would love to try one out though.  I think my car is a bit lighter albeit with about 45 less HP.  I think it will come down to driver and tires.

Violent is what makes a muscle car a "muscle car" nothing smooth and gentle about raw American horse power 

[Gman]

Manual trans isn't as much of a "must have" with newer sports cars, at least not like it was.

I was the same, all my cars were manual when I first started driving performance cars, my RX7 in 94, my Stealth Turbo in 95, both my Firebirds, my Corvettes, our Viper - etc.  I wouldn't "settle" for an auto either, although a couple of older classic cars had them.

Now auto trans technology is insane, and some types will perform far faster than any manual ever could, and with all the computer controls actually give the driver more control and options.  The new Corvette Z06 is supposedly faster with the auto trans than the manual, not just in drag strip racing but on the track as well.  My missus's current summer car, until this spring anyhow, is an auto trans, and is one of the best performing street or track cars you could buy for the $ in the late 2000s until only a couple years ago (Nissan GTR).  So far as the violent feel you're talking about, Jeremy Clarkson put himself in the hospital with a Nissan GTR when they first came out by screwing his neck and back up in hard cornering.  Believe me, it's a very uncomfortable feeling for passengers that haven't been in a high performance car like that when you start to toss it around.

I still like rowing around myself too, but I also like a lot of the advanced tech and options with some of the newer auto transmissions as well, it's car to car, and there is no longer any negative performance impacts by going with an auto in many, many cars now.  In fact, with a lot of the dual clutch and other types of advances, it's the opposite effect in a lot of cases.  I'm at the point now where I wouldn't rule out a car because of an auto only trans, some don't even give you the option in any case now.  We're selling the GTR in the spring, and the car she wants next is most likely the Alfa 4c, and you can't even get a manual with it.  I want the Z06, and probably would still get the manual, but the auto has appeal as well.

[-ammo-]

I'll retract my statement about the 2016 GT500 having 740+ HP.  It is pure speculation I read somewhere.

[Masherbrum]

Gman, I enjoy the fluidity of taking the track with a manual.   If I had a viable track car, it would only be a manual.   IMO, vehicles of this nature should be taken on a track.   I probably take it more serious than most, but I have a very good track about an hour away from me.   My buddy and I race his Porsche 914.   Not lighting up the speed, but pushing the envelope in corners, is an adrenaline rush that cannot be replicated by anything else.

[JOACH1M]

Gman, I enjoy the fluidity of taking the track with a manual.   If I had a viable track car, it would only be a manual.   IMO, vehicles of this nature should be taken on a track.   I probably take it more serious than most, but I have a very good track about an hour away from me.   My buddy and I race his Porsche 914.   Not lighting up the speed, but pushing the envelope in corners, is an adrenaline rush that cannot be replicated by anything else.

I have yet to make my way down by you...I do hope some day i do and do a few laps!

[jeep00]

Gman, I enjoy the fluidity of taking the track with a manual.   If I had a viable track car, it would only be a manual.   IMO, vehicles of this nature should be taken on a track.   I probably take it more serious than most, but I have a very good track about an hour away from me.   My buddy and I race his Porsche 914.   Not lighting up the speed, but pushing the envelope in corners, is an adrenaline rush that cannot be replicated by anything else.

This.
I used to do hill clmbs in my 1984 Audi 4000S Quattro. No where near the vehicle others were running (even had one of the Rutan's on the circuit) but what a blast of a time, uphill and downhill turns and corners, short straights, outstanding feeling beating your time each run, not nearly the same feeling as racing in a short straight line. And made doubly fun by stirring around that shifter for every ounce it was worth.

[icepac]

Automatic transmissions make lots of heat in racing situations.

Far more than the stock systems can get rid of for any length of time.

[Hajo]

Stock Challenger/Mustang/Camaro cannot be compared to those T/A series cars.   No way, no how.   Having driven a souped up Roush Challenger T/A, I was not a fan of the understeer.   But since we're now peddling a "forced to buy an automatic" Charger.   No thanks.   They will end up being mall crawlers.

That's a given.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Blah  factory stock 4 door sedan blah blah ... BMW M5 ... blah blah bwak bwak.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

So far as the violent feel you're talking about, Jeremy Clarkson put himself in the hospital with a Nissan GTR when they first came out by screwing his neck and back up in hard cornering.  Believe me, it's a very uncomfortable feeling for passengers that haven't been in a high performance car like that when you start to toss it around.

I never understood why people even buy this sort of cars. I wouldn't want to drive a bed of rocks as a daily driver no matter how fast it moves. A car has to be silent and comfortable but accelerate fast enough for overtakes. Just like my 500 Mercedes.

[-ammo-]

I never understood why people even buy this sort of cars. I wouldn't want to drive a bed of rocks as a daily driver no matter how fast it moves. A car has to be silent and comfortable but accelerate fast enough for overtakes. Just like my 500 Mercedes.

It's a man thing

[Gman]

Oh I agree, up to a point, but "vluidity" isn't a manual only thing, not any longer.  Here is a his and hers picture.  You can guess which one was mine pretty easily, and it was manual vs auto as well.  Her car (GTR) would smoke almost every car anyone here has driven, both on the street or on any track, in any weather condition.  That was when it was stock, and after the Alpha 9 mods - fuggetaboutit.  That's all I'm saying.  And technology has improved drastically since 2009.  I prefer manual typically as well, just to feel involved in the process, but the reality is auto transmissions now with the current tech can and are blowing manuals away.  They shift faster than any human can, predict and control downshifts and RPM control, all that sort of stuff, with computers monitoring and adjusting a thousand little sensor driven bits of data - it's just at the point IMO where cars like the GTR, which ours is 6 years old now, simply aren't going to be outperformed with a manual like days gone by.  My original point was that "having" to have a manual trans for performance purposes just isn't the case any more, as more and more performance cars are taking advantage of the speed and computing power out there that these new types of auto trans provide.

Vintage cars, especially track cars - I agree completely.  I was in the Alberta and B.C. 240z club for nearly a decade, and used to have 3 of them, and put one of them on the track all the time.  Good times.

[-ammo-]

My car managed to pull a GTR on the A81 last summer.  Fast car they are and in their element on the track.  I picked a fight where I knew I had the advantage.  I do have go pro footage but since the GTR never got in front of me, useless to post

[Gman]

That was your supercharged mustang right?  In a straight line, you can make any performance car beat another with aftermarket mods.  There is always a faster car, especially without tight corners/track.  Before we modded the GTR we raced a couple ZR1s, and both the Vettes were faster under most highway conditions and in the 1/4 mile.  On the Ring in Germany, it's much closer.   The stock 2009 GTR Nurburgring times are only a couple seconds slower than what the Ford 350R just did a number of weeks ago.  The GTR with just the cheapest of the Alpha mods, typically the 9 kit, I've seen beat 800whp Shelbys with ease in drags, let alone on the tracks.  Our GTR club here in Canada has dozens if not hundreds of 1000hp+ cars, and many in the 1200hp++ range now.  It's like an arms race, it never ends.  And for every modded GTR there is 5 modded Shelbys or even stock Mustangs and 10 Corvettes that will compete with them.  One thing the GTR does give in real world peformance is that AWD in misty/wet weather - I always say every time we hit weather like that, it's like a cat, and just seems to dig its claws in further, where as other performance cars we've had seem like driving on hockey pucks once a bit of water flies.

How do you think your old car compared with a newer Shelby GT500 in terms of highway performance?  We had a 2011 after we sold the Viper for a short period of time, and the GTR would beat it in straight line NP, we raced them side by side at least a dozen times in different conditions, plus the GTR would demolish it on a track setting.  For the $ though the Ford would be what I'd pick doing it over, or if the wife pretended I had in a say in it, hah - I paid exactly 1/2 for the Ford as she did for the Nissan. 

I sure like the new Ford Mustangs, as I said, I'm campaigning hard for the Z06, but I'll absolutely drive the 350 and whatever else Ford comes out with by summer time before deciding.  The new Mustangs are incredible, part of me really wants to get a 4 cyl Ecoboost as a 2nd car and mod it and see what it will do.  

[ink]

id would have to say without shame.....

you guys are gonna crap....me being a MOPAR guy...

being a tattoo guy I have met lots of people....have driven many nice cars...

the sickest car I ever drove.....I mean the fastest...best turn holding.....awesome handling was a friggen Subaru....


the WRX STi

I would race that against any car..on any road.