Footage of TransAsia Airway plane crash in Taipei

[Delirium]

It could be whichever pilot was flying this aircraft, was caught off guard, and reacted to late to counter the yaw and ensuing roll over.  A very dynamic and fast pace of events right after takeoff. 

That was my first impression too, saw the roll and only then did I notice the engine out.

[SysError]

So it looks as if both engines lost power.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31162351

[ebfd11]

Imagine being the guy in the taxi it hit...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31143710

I would have needed a new pair of shorts.

LawnDart

[PR3D4TOR]

From SysError's link:

"Then the other

engine was shut down manually. The pilot tried to restart the engines but to no avail.

"That means that during the flight's final moments, neither engine had any thrust. We heard 'Mayday' at 10:54:35," he added.

The flight, which had been bound for Taiwan's Kinmen Island, crashed into the Keelung River just 72 seconds later.

The plane, an ATR 72-600, is able to fly with just one functioning engine. Mr Wang said it was not clear why the left engine had been shut down.

The engine we see running is actually the malfunctioning engine. The crew shut down the left engine manually. Regardless of how much earl1937 would like it differently it seems like a pilot error rather than toejamty design.

[Rich46yo]

To serve as a commercial airliner in the U.S, the ATR had to demonstrate, during certification, the ability to experience an engine failure after V1, climb on one, remain controllable, and land safely.

And the two engine argument goes on. As far as I know, and correct me if the 747 production hasnt been stopped, the A380 is the only 4 engined regional/long range commercial aircraft still being produced. I know the A340 production has ceased and all regional jets are now two engined. I remember the row when they were trying to get the 777 certified for long haul on its two engines.

The simple fact is two engined people haulers make more money. It all comes down to profit made per passenger in seat. I dont think "speed" has much to do with hauler design when compared to MPG of fuel. Every component of a hauler is made for get Jack and Jill from A to B as cheaply as possible. Of course NOT falling out the sky is also considered.

These Asian start ups are really upping the ante on aircraft turn around/usage and employee productivity. The market is huge and growing every day and while I have no hard facts on TransAsia I know Air Asia is setting new records for keeping its airplanes in the air, and for discount rates. Spirit airlines does the same here and I can attest their airplanes are always having trouble. Man I'd never fly Spirit, tho at least we probably have higher safety standards then an Asian airline does. At least the regionals. I think I'd pass on TransAsia for a puddle jump. Losing two of your 10 ATR's doesnt look good.

[earl1937]

From SysError's link:

The engine we see running is actually the malfunctioning engine. The crew shut down the left engine manually. Regardless of how much earl1937 would like it differently it seems like a pilot error rather than toejamty design.

There is a good "black box" report in aircraft and vehicles, which says the left engine, or #1 was the inop engine during the emergencie and now it looks like they may have shut down the good engine, while trying to clean up #1. If that was the case, yes it would be pilot error!
My whole contention about this aircraft is that when operating at slow speeds, it is operating right on the edge because of the small rudder and elevator, more the rudder size than the elevator.

[PR3D4TOR]

You keep saying it has a small rudder, but it clearly doesn't compared to similar aircraft.

[Serenity]

You keep saying it has a small rudder, but it clearly doesn't compared to similar aircraft.

Size of aircraft does not necessarily equate to similar aerodynamic behavior.

[Flifast]

The right engine went into auto feather at about 1500 ago but the crew reduced power on the left engine and then shut down the left engine.  I've done a few 100 shutdown and restarts and if they figured out the error and tried to restart and unfeather the left engine it would make the aircraft roll hard left.  When the left engine comes out of feather it's like going from 4th gear to first gear and the drag on that prop is huge.  We've done it a few times with both engines feathered at 10,000 feet and expect to lose 2000 before its out of feather and providing forward thrust.

I have a copy of the FDR with just a few channels so you can't tell control inputs, just engine data.

Fli

[earl1937]

You keep saying it has a small rudder, but it clearly doesn't compared to similar aircraft.

The "moment arm leverage" on the vertical axis is something that is computed when designing the aircraft. My question is: should it be 150% of normal "throw" or is it one those figures right on the "button".
My question is this: is the rudder size and throw the same as on the short version, I think the 100, if so, you going to tell me that with the fuselage extend another 12 feet, that you  should not add some rudder dimension's to make up for the length of the fuse?
When building the rudder or any other part on the aircraft, it is formed in "jig" and the dimension's stay the same, but suppose they change the length of the fuselage, now they must build a whole new "jig", parts have to cut larger and etc, don't you think that cost's a lot money? Yep

[earl1937]

The right engine went into auto feather at about 1500 ago but the crew reduced power on the left engine and then shut down the left engine.  I've done a few 100 shutdown and restarts and if they figured out the error and tried to restart and unfeather the left engine it would make the aircraft roll hard left.  When the left engine comes out of feather it's like going from 4th gear to first gear and the drag on that prop is huge.  We've done it a few times with both engines feathered at 10,000 feet and expect to lose 2000 before its out of feather and providing forward thrust.

I have a copy of the FDR with just a few channels so you can't tell control inputs, just engine data.

Fli

Well, it is an interesting discussion! a lot of good posts and replies, a lot of good technical stuff to!

[USRanger]

The pilot really deserves kudos and much respect for going for the river instead of hitting what is probably a butt-ton of buildings all around there.  Sad to think that by the time the pics/footage is taken, everyone on-board knows they are dead.

[Zimme83]

In most cases the shorter versions of a plane need a bigger fin, A318 for example have a bigger fin than the bigger brothers. Short plane means less stability and thus need a larger fin. I cannot see that the ATR-72 has a undersized fin or rudder. Max demonstrated cross wind on dry runway its 35 kt for the ATR 72-600 and that indicate that it has a very good rudder.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Very sad.


  for the lost ones.  to those who survived.  for the pilots.

[SysError]

Very sad.


  for the lost ones.  to those who survived.  for the pilots.

Well Said.