Footage of TransAsia Airway plane crash in Taipei

[icepac]

I think he sacrificed his airspeed to clear the buildings in hoping he could get enough airspeed by descending near the river.

[Busher]

Have a few hours on this airplane and the Dash-8 (very similar).

If you fail to stop the yaw with rudder and promptly feather the prop on the failed engine, this will result

[SysError]

Have a few hours on this airplane and the Dash-8 (very similar).

If you fail to stop the yaw with rudder and promptly feather the prop on the failed engine, this will result

If he had would he have cleared the apartments?  How much time do you have and what do you lose in speed and alt?

[Busher]

All licensed airports have published obstacle clearance procedures based upon natural or man-made terrain. Assuming the airline's safe dispatch procedures include this performance analysis (required climb gradient), the airplane will, if properly flown will clear all obstacles in its departure path after suffering an engine failure on takeoff.

Failure to control the yaw with rudder, failure to fly the aircraft at the correct single engine climb speed, and failure to feather a windmilling propeller after engine failure all work to degrade climb performance. Any one of these can cause a complete loss of control. I am not suggesting that this was the cause of the accident - we'll have to wait for the official report.

I only have about 150 hours on the ATR but more than 5000 on the Dash-8. They are very similar and used exactly the same P&W turbo-prop engine.

[earl1937]

Have a few hours on this airplane and the Dash-8 (very similar).

If you fail to stop the yaw with rudder and promptly feather the prop on the failed engine, this will result

My big compliant about the design of this aircraft is the size of the elevator and rudder. I think the engineers sacrificed handling at low speeds for high speed cruise numbers. If this aircraft had, say, just 20% larger rudder and elevator, the VMC would be a lot lower and I think serveral of these accidents could have been prevented. Again though, money gets in the way of safety 

[earl1937]

Suspiciously many stall related crashes with the ATR.

You are correct! Since 1988, someone should have said, bad design, lets redo the tail surfaces and give the pilots a better chance in low speed realm's.

[earl1937]

What a job missing all that concrete and hitting the river.

By the time you can see the aircraft in the video, the pilot had no control over what the aircraft was doing!

[PR3D4TOR]

I would not use the word "many" in relation to the number of fatal accidents involving the ATR 42/72. 11 fatal accidents in 30 years from 1200 produced aircraft doesn't strike me as excessive. However that four fatal accidents (including two where only the crew perished) were TransAsia flights does.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/atr.htm

[earl1937]

I would not use the word "many" in relation to the number of fatal accidents involving the ATR 42/72. 11 fatal accidents in 30 years from 1200 produced aircraft doesn't strike me as excessive. However that four fatal accidents (including two where only the crew perished) were TransAsia flights does.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/atr.htm

I am reminded of something "Chuck Yeager" once said: "if it don't look right, generally speaking it doesn't fly right"! I think the tail surfaces are out of sync with the rest of the airframe, especially the stretch 600 model.

[PR3D4TOR]

How many planes did Chuck Yeager design? And how would the tail surfaces cause the left wing to stall as evident in the crash footage?

[DaveBB]

Lack of rudder authority would cause an uncontrolled yaw.  Once the plane starts yawing, drag increases tremendously, and it quickly falls below single engine speed.

[Puma44]

Engine failure/rollback after V1 without immediately applying corrective rudder (dead foot,dead engine) most often results in an uncontrollable roll and bad results.

To serve as a commercial airliner in the U.S, the ATR had to demonstrate, during certification, the ability to experience an engine failure after V1, climb on one, remain controllable, and land safely.

It could be whichever pilot was flying this aircraft, was caught off guard, and reacted to late to counter the yaw and ensuing roll over.  A very dynamic and fast pace of events right after takeoff. 

[Busher]

My big compliant about the design of this aircraft is the size of the elevator and rudder. I think the engineers sacrificed handling at low speeds for high speed cruise numbers. If this aircraft had, say, just 20% larger rudder and elevator, the VMC would be a lot lower and I think serveral of these accidents could have been prevented. Again though, money gets in the way of safety 

I don't totally disagree...both this airplane and the Dash-9 are Butt-ugly and under-powered. The cost of short haul economy I suppose.

That being said, they both have more than adequate rudder authority to fly and climb at V2 holding the airplane straight against a windmilling prop. Once the failed engine's prop is feathered, they don't require full rudder application to continue the climb at best single engine speed.

It appears to me from the video that the accident aircraft's failed engine's prop was not feathered.

[PR3D4TOR]

Neither the vertical stabilizer or the rudder seem undersized to me compared to similar aircraft. Also the argument that a "stretched" version would need larger tail surfaces is contrary to elementary physics. The longer the moment arm the smaller the force needed to move it. The longer the fuselage the more authority the control surfaces have.

[PR3D4TOR]

Actually I think the Dash-8 is quite beautiful with those long nacelles and the drooping nose.