Dueling arena

[Elfie]

The arena was provided so the furballers could have that endless furball that the claim to want.  AH provided it in the form of furball lake, however, it appears that the furballers would rather fly in the MA and continue to complain whenever someone takes down a fighter hanger.  Could be that when confronted with equal numbers of furballing nme in the DA they discovered they really arn't that good and need the distraction of the heavy, slow , fat jabos in the MA to provide that impression that they are skilled combat pilots.

Actually, the DA started off as pairs of bases, each pair at the same altitude. That was it, maybe 6 or 7 pairs of bases. This setup was strictly for dueling.

Furball lake came much later. Sending Furballers (or any other group) to a separate room has never worked. It doesn't work for at least a couple of reasons: 1) people want to be where the action and crowds are, 2) people log onto the game and see no one in the DA, (where Furball lake is) and go to the MA instead. This exact same thing happened when AirWarrior tried a Fighter Town arena. Both were popular at first, but quickly became ghost towns.

The answer isn't to segregate people. The answer is Fighter Town and Tank Town in the MA. In order for that to be successful certain things have to happen.

1) Just like in AirWarrior's BigPac arena, FT/TT need to be uncaptureable. Whatever it takes, coding changes...a new base w/o a map room, whatever.

2) Hangers at FT/TT need to be indestructible. If they aren't griefers will drop them over and over.

And because folks like to abuse FT/TT bases to further their war efforts (this is a leading cause of complaints from the War Fighter crowd):

3) Disable troops/supplies/ordnance at FT/TT

3) Disable troops at FT/TT bases.

Even if you put 100k mountains around it to stop all possibility of enemy aircraft raiding FT/TT you still need to make the bases uncaptureable from the inside, ie no troops or no map rooms or an on/off toggle...something.

I'll borrow  some words from a friend of mine.

However, that does not change the fact that Fightertown, like Tanktown on the Trininty map, is designed to provide a place for some folks to "specialize" in a particular play style without impacting "normal" gameplay on the rest of the map.

So, anyone who would capture bases in Fightertown (or Tanktown) does so knowing that they are denying other players the specifically designed place to enjoy their specialized brand of fun.

If you wish to play capture the flag, please do so. Your ~98% of a huge 512x512 map to do so.

[Toad]

But you all claim to enjoy the furball, the endless furball, however, most nights the DA is empty.  You are lurking in the MA, running down the slow fat jabos and that’s fine, but stop claiming to need or want an arena dedicated to furballing when the fact is, you  and collectively the other furballers don’t use it.

If you have been here 15 years you surely remember the short-lived Donut map. Two players created it and it was a huge success.

Furballers don't need a dedicated arena. Like GVers at TankTowns though, they'd like a place to enjoy their brand of fun in the company of _all_ players. Note that Donut also made provision for a TankTown.

When we had Donut, Furball Lake was heavily populated and very well used. So heavily populated in fact that the Win The War faction complained bitterly that not enough people were trying to win the war. Eventually Donut was disappeared from the rotation because HT decided it was causing a rift in the player base.

Rift? The GVers were quite happy with it. The Furballers were quite happy with it. There was only one faction unhappy about it: the guys that want everyone to play their way.

Anyone can search "Donut" or "Donut Map" and see what went down.

Here's a link to ancient history, 2005. See who is whining about people not playing their way. It ain't the Fur crowd.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,162017.0.html

[Scotch]

Donut map was literally one of the best maps I've flown in any sim.

[DmonSlyr]

Wed all love to fuball and bring massive fights.. It has disapointed me lately that death before disoner hasn't been recognized.

[Guppy35]

The arena was provided so the furballers could have that endless furball that the claim to want.  AH provided it in the form of furball lake, however, it appears that the furballers would rather fly in the MA and continue to complain whenever someone takes down a fighter hanger.  Could be that when confronted with equal numbers of furballing nme in the DA they discovered they really arn't that good and need the distraction of the heavy, slow , fat jabos in the MA to provide that impression that they are skilled combat pilots.

I wish the go to the DA crowd would get one important thing tattooed in thier head.  A big part of the game also involves the social aspect of the game.  Everyone is part of that.  To separate that out into fighting styles is rediculous.   

You do understand that some of the best furballs happen between two bases being fought over.  If I have a beef with what's happened in AH is that this no longer is the goal.  And by this I mean fighting it out for a base.

To clarify that, I'm not talking about sneaking in, knocking everything out and then vulching anyone who tries to fight.  I'm talking about those fights where to equal sized crowds meet in the  middle and do thier best to out fight each other for one field or the other.

This went from the usual suspects on either side taking buffs over the to to kill the hangers and the fight, to let's hit a field no one is defending, and blame them for there being no fight, to let's kill HQ so no one can find the fight anyway.

When is the last time you saw a post on this board talking about the 5 hour fight over one base?  Those posts used to happen a lot.

Now you see the posts talking about taking five hours to avoid combat and that's an accomplishment.

in the end this isn't about furballers or base takers.  It's about fighting vs not fighting.

[pipz]

That reminds me of Air Warrior. We would have grudge matches between two bases that would last all weekend at times. Now ya tend to have two opposing dar bars at opposite ends of the map racing to take bases. Not all the time but often it seems.

[Traveler]

When I started my stats stuff in AH the DA used to have about 10-20% of the LW population, depending on daytime, most of them over 'Lake Furball'.
To me it seems as if most of the Lake Furball regulars went to WT, which provides  similar 'instant action', yet with no monthly fee. And now you have the old 'if nobody is there, nobody goes there' dilemma...

I think this is the best insight in this thread.  Most of the DA populations used the F3 mode view and why pay $15.00 or any price to play what is a free arcade game elsewhere.

[The Fugitive]

I wish the go to the DA crowd would get one important thing tattooed in thier head.  A big part of the game also involves the social aspect of the game.  Everyone is part of that.  To separate that out into fighting styles is rediculous.   

You do understand that some of the best furballs happen between two bases being fought over.  If I have a beef with what's happened in AH is that this no longer is the goal.  And by this I mean fighting it out for a base.

To clarify that, I'm not talking about sneaking in, knocking everything out and then vulching anyone who tries to fight.  I'm talking about those fights where to equal sized crowds meet in the  middle and do thier best to out fight each other for one field or the other.

This went from the usual suspects on either side taking buffs over the to to kill the hangers and the fight, to let's hit a field no one is defending, and blame them for there being no fight, to let's kill HQ so no one can find the fight anyway.

When is the last time you saw a post on this board talking about the 5 hour fight over one base?  Those posts used to happen a lot.

Now you see the posts talking about taking five hours to avoid combat and that's an accomplishment.

in the end this isn't about furballers or base takers.  It's about fighting vs not fighting.

That reminds me of Air Warrior. We would have grudge matches between two bases that would last all weekend at times. Now ya tend to have two opposing dar bars at opposite ends of the map racing to take bases. Not all the time but often it seems.

I've been saying this for years! I think too many of you have me on "Ignore" 

Until the game gets the "fight" back into it I fear we will continue to loose subscriptions. 

[Traveler]

I wish the go to the DA crowd would get one important thing tattooed in thier head.  A big part of the game also involves the social aspect of the game.  Everyone is part of that.  To separate that out into fighting styles is rediculous.   

You do understand that some of the best furballs happen between two bases being fought over.  If I have a beef with what's happened in AH is that this no longer is the goal.  And by this I mean fighting it out for a base.

To clarify that, I'm not talking about sneaking in, knocking everything out and then vulching anyone who tries to fight.  I'm talking about those fights where to equal sized crowds meet in the  middle and do thier best to out fight each other for one field or the other.

Please continue to clarify, how does a base transfer ownership from one side to another by two sides fighting it out in the middle?  I believe what you are talking about occurred  last night between the Rooks and the Knights with the knights finally re-capturing one of there original bases.   I'm pretty sure that we spent about 4 hours doing that with lots of dog fighting and bombing and Tank wars all over one field.    But That means that at one point someone had to put troops in the map room, in order for the field to change hands.   You don't accomplish that by fighting in the middle between two fields.  I have no problem finding those kind of battles each and every weekend.  But that final conflict is only resolved by putting troops in the map room.

So when people  say I don't care about the capture I just want to furball.  What I've learned is that they  really don't want to furball or they would be at furball lake in the DA, they want to pick .  They want that big fat slow Jabo that they can run down and pick.

But I'd really like you to explain how you believe that two groups fighting between two fields can resolve ownership of one of those two fields?????   

[Toad]

Probably what a lot of them would like is the Donut map back in rotation.

[The Fugitive]

<snip>

So when people  say I don't care about the capture I just want to furball.  What I've learned is that they  really don't want to furball or they would be at furball lake in the DA, they want to pick .  They want that big fat slow Jabo that they can run down and pick.

But I'd really like you to explain how you believe that two groups fighting between two fields can resolve ownership of one of those two fields?????   

Change the bolded section to I just want to fight The reason they don't go to the DA is because there is nobody there. I have friends that like to fly buffs, other that like to GV and so on. If I move to the DA I miss out on on of the best parts of the game..... interacting with other players.

Sure I like jumping on a nice fat jabo as much as the next guy. He is either going to "give" me a kill because he refuses to give up his bomber mission to fight.... which is his first and biggest mistake, or he will go light to fight me, in which case I have helped "defend" the target, AND I get a fight!

[pipz]

I've been saying this for years! I think too many of you have me on "Ignore" 

Until the game gets the "fight" back into it I fear we will continue to loose subscriptions. 

Excuse me are you new to the game? Have we met before? 

[Masherbrum]

Please continue to clarify, how does a base transfer ownership from one side to another by two sides fighting it out in the middle?  I believe what you are talking about occurred  last night between the Rooks and the Knights with the knights finally re-capturing one of there original bases.   I'm pretty sure that we spent about 4 hours doing that with lots of dog fighting and bombing and Tank wars all over one field.    But That means that at one point someone had to put troops in the map room, in order for the field to change hands.   You don't accomplish that by fighting in the middle between two fields.  I have no problem finding those kind of battles each and every weekend.  But that final conflict is only resolved by putting troops in the map room.

So when people  say I don't care about the capture I just want to furball.  What I've learned is that they  really don't want to furball or they would be at furball lake in the DA, they want to pick .  They want that big fat slow Jabo that they can run down and pick.

But I'd really like you to explain how you believe that two groups fighting between two fields can resolve ownership of one of those two fields?????

You don't care what "the other group" would like.  You have said such with your own words, in a couple of posts, in this very thread.   So why should someone:  "Explain to the all-knowing Traveler"?   It is pointless, but please continue playing



Edit:   

Probably what a lot of them would like is the Donut map back in rotation.

Exactly and it was BS when they pulled it from the rotation.

[Guppy35]

Please continue to clarify, how does a base transfer ownership from one side to another by two sides fighting it out in the middle?  I believe what you are talking about occurred  last night between the Rooks and the Knights with the knights finally re-capturing one of there original bases.   I'm pretty sure that we spent about 4 hours doing that with lots of dog fighting and bombing and Tank wars all over one field.    But That means that at one point someone had to put troops in the map room, in order for the field to change hands.   You don't accomplish that by fighting in the middle between two fields.  I have no problem finding those kind of battles each and every weekend.  But that final conflict is only resolved by putting troops in the map room.

So when people  say I don't care about the capture I just want to furball.  What I've learned is that they  really don't want to furball or they would be at furball lake in the DA, they want to pick .  They want that big fat slow Jabo that they can run down and pick.

But I'd really like you to explain how you believe that two groups fighting between two fields can resolve ownership of one of those two fields?????   

You snipped a big part of what I said and clearly didn't understand the other part.  So let me clarify one more time.

1.  There is a longtime social aspect of the game that is important to building and maintaining the AH community.  To split it even more would not be a good thing so the " go to the DA" bs is just that.  The DA is for guys who want to train or work on thier 1v 1 skills.  Those who spend their time in Furball lake don't really interact with the larger community in game.

2.  That I like to fight against other planes doesn't mean I'm against the idea of base capture.  I'm against running the map as fast as possible by hitting undefended bases and then blaming the other team for not defending.   If you want to try and take a well defended base I'm all for it and odds are I'll be there trying to keep the sky clear.  But that doesn't mean I have any desire to kill everything at the field first and set up the vulch pattern should they try and defend then.  That's as boring as it gets. 


So in the end I want to be an ACE, as in Air Combat Enthusiast, in whatever form I can find it.  For those of us who started out way back when flying model airplanes across the room and then flying on green screens against computer controlled AI pixels, the thrill of competing against other real live people was a revelation and beyond what we imagined way back when.

So fighting against inanimate buildings or working to avoid competing against other people just doesn't do it.

[Masherbrum]

You snipped a big part of what I said and clearly didn't understand the other part.  So let me clarify one more time.

1.  There is a longtime social aspect of the game that is important to building and maintaining the AH community.  To split it even more would not be a good thing so the " go to the DA" bs is just that.  The DA is for guys who want to train or work on thier 1v 1 skills.  Those who spend their time in Furball lake don't really interact with the larger community in game.

2.  That I like to fight against other planes doesn't mean I'm against the idea of base capture.  I'm against running the map as fast as possible by hitting undefended bases and then blaming the other team for not defending.   If you want to try and take a well defended base I'm all for it and odds are I'll be there trying to keep the sky clear.  But that doesn't mean I have any desire to kill everything at the field first and set up the vulch pattern should they try and defend then.  That's as boring as it gets. 


So in the end I want to be an ACE, as in Air Combat Enthusiast, in whatever form I can find it.  For those of us who started out way back when flying model airplanes across the room and then flying on green screens against computer controlled AI pixels, the thrill of competing against other real live people was a revelation and beyond what we imagined way back when.

So fighting against inanimate buildings or working to avoid competing against other people just doesn't do it.

It is all in vain, but this is how a lot of us feel.   Good post Dan.