Musashi found!

[PR3D4TOR]

Another Japanese WWII collection must have is the 2011 movie "The Admiral" (aka "Isoroku Yamamoto, the Commander-in-Chief of the Combined Fleet"). A biography of Yamamoto's war years.

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBQotim_ZHA

[Muzzy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92jF-XzAOFY

Here's a youtube link with some footage from the film I mentioned. The entire movie used to be available but it has since been removed.

And for the Space Battleship version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDBHKIvDyoA

[Drano]

Had to get me started on the cartoon version.

Filed under "say hello to my little friend!":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV0x4XHdbyc

[caldera]

I had the complete sets for both seasons on VHS and stupidly gave them to my nephews, figuring they would love them. 

They threw them in the effing trash. 

[Drano]

Crap!

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[pembquist]

In 1940 the IJN was the best navy in the world. But they took on an Allied force they couldnt hope to beat. Obviously it looked different to them back then which is kinda fascinating. Or do you think many knew? And just wanted to die as warriors?

This is what I wondered. I read a good little book, (title escapes me right now, if your interested I can try to find it,) that was about the high politics and maneuvering in Japan a few days before the surrender. (Basically how the surrender was able to happen.) What I recall most from the book is how disturbing some of the leadership was. They seemed to have an infatuation with death and had for a long time. I don't mean this in the usual jingoist way that a lot of commentators bring to Japanese WW2 martial culture but I mean specifically the people who had attained power (I guess you'd call them the millitarists) seemed perverted/damaged goods, whatever.

[Muzzy]

I think early on the mentality was not so much the desire to die in battle, although it was an influence. Really the Japanese had a bone to pick with the western powers, and with the United States in particular. It was born out of the perception that westerners saw the Japanese as inferior, which given the racism of the time, was largely valid. Japan thought it had earned the respect of the west after the Russo-Japanese war and Japanese participation in World War I, but Versailles and subsequent treaties proved that was not the case. Add to that the forced opening of the country by the US, and the result was a culture that felt it had to prove itself by defeating another major power, with the US being the obvious target.

Had Japanese leadership not been so obsessed with the United States as an adversary, they might have achieved their goals without even fighting them. The Americans were not going to get involved in a war unless they were directly attacked, and all the resource-rich territories were British and Dutch possessions. Had they left the Phillippines alone, they could have taken Burma, Borneo, etc. without US interference and secured the resources they wanted. It's not like the US would try to blockade them from the Philippines without a declaration of war.

But the Japanese mentality was that if they wanted an empire in the Pacific, they would have to fight the Americans sooner or later, and with the Navy and Army at their apex, they figured late '41 was the time to try it. Had they thought a bit more strategically, they could have had their empire without fighting the US.

[Rich46yo]

Some good points here. There was I believe a certain level of inferiority complex in Japanese Leadership, which grew and grew as the Military took more and more power. Also they didnt think what they were doing was any different then what the western colonial powers were doing. Tho obviously we didnt come close in ruthlessness or brutality. America in the Philippines and the French/Brits in S/E Asia gave the Japanese a sense of entitlement ; They believed they had a right to establish Empire in Asia. As THE dominant Empire.

I think early on the mentality was not so much the desire to die in battle, although it was an influence. Really the Japanese had a bone to pick with the western powers, and with the United States in particular. It was born out of the perception that westerners saw the Japanese as inferior, which given the racism of the time, was largely valid. Japan thought it had earned the respect of the west after the Russo-Japanese war and Japanese participation in World War I, but Versailles and subsequent treaties proved that was not the case. Add to that the forced opening of the country by the US, and the result was a culture that felt it had to prove itself by defeating another major power, with the US being the obvious target.

Had Japanese leadership not been so obsessed with the United States as an adversary, they might have achieved their goals without even fighting them. The Americans were not going to get involved in a war unless they were directly attacked, and all the resource-rich territories were British and Dutch possessions. Had they left the Phillippines alone, they could have taken Burma, Borneo, etc. without US interference and secured the resources they wanted. It's not like the US would try to blockade them from the Philippines without a declaration of war.

There is no way the Japanese could have achieved their objectives with the USN intact in the Pacific and an increasingly hostile Govt. in Washington. First off we had cut off their oil and other supplies which hurt their war economy terribly. The Presence of US bases, to be left untouched, in event of war couldnt even be considered. They would always be a knife at Japans back. They had two options. Attack or Back Down. Thats it.

But the Japanese mentality was that if they wanted an empire in the Pacific, they would have to fight the Americans sooner or later, and with the Navy and Army at their apex, they figured late '41 was the time to try it. Had they thought a bit more strategically, they could have had their empire without fighting the US.

Not just that but at that moment in the Showa era of Japans history the military was at the apex of their power regarding foreign affairs. Most of all the Army, using everything from assassination to bribery, but they were all on board. Most of all Hirohito in the shadows, his influence protected by the big players. As time went on the position of the Army would have weakened and other, more moderate, players would have gained influence. They knew war was coming and a fully mobilized USA was an enemy they didnt even want to comprehend. They would never have a better time, damned as it was, then Dec. 1941.

Look at this map of the disposition of power along the axis and periphery of Japans line of advance and supply on 1 Sept '39. It is simply unthinkable they would leave such dangerous American forces intact while attempting to build Empire and secure vital trade routes in S/E Asia. No disrespect but such a plan as you describe was never even considered.

[Karnak]

We were pretty brutal in the Philippines during the early stages of our possession.  It isn't well known history, but there is some pretty shocking and shameful stuff in there.  Stuff not all that far from Japanese occupation.

[Oldman731]

We were pretty brutal in the Philippines during the early stages of our possession.  It isn't well known history, but there is some pretty shocking and shameful stuff in there.  Stuff not all that far from Japanese occupation.

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/242370/Back-to-Bataan-Movie-Clip-Haul-Down-the-Flag.html

- oldman

[Muzzy]

The question would be whether the US would have gone to war if they were not attacked directly. Most of the resources lost in the American embargo were in the British  and Dutch colonies that the Japanese conquered.

While the Philippines sit right in the center of the supply lines, they are not an issue as long as the US stays out of the conflict. Could Roosevelt have declared war on Japan if Pearl and the Philippines are never attacked? Given the isolationism of the time, it's doubtful. Of course it's risky leaving the Philippines in American hands, but the threat is neutralized as long as they can keep the US out of th the war.

[Perrine]

We were pretty brutal in the Philippines during the early stages of our possession.  It isn't well known history, but there is some pretty shocking and shameful stuff in there.  Stuff not all that far from Japanese occupation.

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/242370/Back-to-Bataan-Movie-Clip-Haul-Down-the-Flag.html

- oldman

I think he's referring to the transition when Philippines went from Spanish possession to short-lived independence to US possession.
The nitty gritty stuff that happened there in the late (18)90s isn't even covered in (mainstream, non-AP tier) US history class.
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/war.crimes/US/U.S.Philippines.htm

[Gman]

What do you guys think about the USS Panay incident?  As well as the Allison incident shortly after, where a Japanese soldier struck the US Ambassador?

The Japanese bombed a US ship in Nanking that was very obviously marked with large US flags painted on the deck and structures, impossible to miss, yet it was deliberately bombed at close range by Japanese aircraft, survivors in small boats and rafts repeatedly strafed, and even had Japanese soldiers in a small boat attack the Panay with MG fire, even shooting the US Flag that was clearly obvious on the structures of the ship.

These incidents are indicative of Japanese attitudes towards America a few years before they attacked Pearl. 

Both incidents do give credence to the arguments about Japanese aggressive attitudes and thinking prior to 1941 IMO.

[Perrine]

Both incidents do give credence to the arguments about Japanese aggressive attitudes and thinking prior to 1941 IMO.

I think their attitude/sentimants can be all traced back to this failed proposal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Equality_Proposal,_1919

[Karnak]

I think he's referring to the transition when Philippines went from Spanish possession to short-lived independence to US possession.
The nitty gritty stuff that happened there in the late (18)90s isn't even covered unless you're in mainstream, non AP-tier high school US history class.
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/war.crimes/US/U.S.Philippines.htm

Yup, that.

By 1941 this stuff was no longer happening, but the late 1890s were not a shining example of what we expect ourselves to be.  This in no way excuses Japanese barbarism and I firmly do not believe it should be used for anything other than as an example we Americans can look at to make sure we never fail to meet our ideals like that again.