Airbus A320

[Zimme83]

Reality says that terror act in Europe is mostly carried out by other people than muslims
For ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

[Puma44]

with that philosophy we should get rid of cat 3 autoland.

fact is, computers in many ways ARE better than people. and they will only continue to get better.

It's has nothing to do with philosophy.  It has to do with reality. Having done several Cat III autolands, I, as the pilot was always very close on the controls in case "George" screwed it up, and yes, "George" screwed it up occasionally.  It's at this time, human perception and judgement takes over and saves what "George" was about to pork.  It's pretty common for the computers in airplanes to cause a "why's it doing that?" response from the pilots and again, human perception and judgement takes over and corrects what the computer was about to screw up.

[kvuo75]

It's has nothing to do with philosophy.  It has to do with reality. Having done several Cat III autolands, I, as the pilot was always very close on the controls in case "George" screwed it up, and yes, "George" screwed it up occasionally.  It's at this time, human perception and judgement takes over and saves what "George" was about to pork.  It's pretty common for the computers in airplanes to cause a "why's it doing that?" response from the pilots and again, human perception and judgement takes over and corrects what the computer was about to screw up.

my point with cat 3 auto land is you're already trusting the autopilots and instrumentation completely to the ground.  i'd trust a computer before a person hand flying down to cat3 minimums (which are very close to 0 dh and 0 rvr, right?)

how about tcas?  as rudimentary as it is, it's another example of technology doing things better than people (seeing and avoiding traffic)

nevertheless.. technology will continue to improve and there's no reason to think computers wont be able to completely take over piloting airliners, and do it better and safer than people eventually. 

and not just with airplanes.. with all vehicles.. trains, cars, etc. 

human beings don't perceive well, have slow reflexes, get distracted easily, get tired, depressed, etc. etc.   I just don't understand the resistance to this progress.  (well, i do if it's your job that might go away, i guess) 

[Puma44]

my point with cat 3 auto land is you're already trusting the autopilots and instrumentation completely to the ground.  i'd trust a computer before a person hand flying down to cat3 minimums (which are very close to 0 dh and 0 rvr, right?)

how about tcas?  as rudimentary as it is, it's another example of technology doing things better than people (seeing and avoiding traffic)

nevertheless.. technology will continue to improve and there's no reason to think computers wont be able to completely take over piloting airliners, and do it better and safer than people eventually. 

and not just with airplanes.. with all vehicles.. trains, cars, etc. 

human beings don't perceive well, have slow reflexes, get distracted easily, get tired, depressed, etc. etc.   I just don't understand the resistance to this progress.  (well, i do if it's your job that might go away, i guess) 

Have you piloted a Cat III approach?  If you have not, how many have you ridden through as a passenger in the back?  If ridding in the back, can you tell if the computer is flying and landing the aircraft versus the pilot?

[bustr]

Enjoying pointing fingers at others perceived position against change, from the assumed secure position it won' t happen to the finger pointer, because of believing in the premise of a progressive future. The finger pointer assumes a position of moral authority because they are defending an as of yet to happen future. To which immunity is assumed by a leap of faith in that progressive future not unlike followers of a new religion accusing an older religion's time tested orthodoxy of being out of step with the new religion's faith in the as of yet happened future.

At some point the novelty of the future will not provide livings for the populations it's designers want to make safer by replacing them with automation. Man lives by defining himself with purpose and activity derived from that purpose. He turns into a mindless slug the farther for his own security you isolate him from his ability to make mistakes and suffer from them.

The old joke that the janitor can be replaced with a vacuum cleaner is poignant. At some point you can replace your work force and then not have anyone to purchase goods or pay taxes. The finger pointers are usualy those who still have an as yet none vacuum cleaner replaced job. 

[kvuo75]

Enjoying pointing fingers at others perceived position against change, from the assumed secure position it won' t happen to the finger pointer, because of believing in the premise of a progressive future. The finger pointer assumes a position of moral authority because they are defending an as of yet to happen future. To which immunity is assumed by a leap of faith in that progressive future not unlike followers of a new religion accusing an older religion's time tested orthodoxy of being out of step with the new religion's faith in the as of yet happened future.

At some point the novelty of the future will not provide livings for the populations it's designers want to make safer by replacing them with automation. Man lives by defining himself with purpose and activity derived from that purpose. He turns into a mindless slug the farther for his own security you isolate him from his ability to make mistakes and suffer from them.

The old joke that the janitor can be replaced with a vacuum cleaner is poignant. At some point you can replace your work force and then not have anyone to purchase goods or pay taxes. The finger pointers are usualy those who still have an as yet none vacuum cleaner replaced job.

bustr, hyperbolic as usual.. I'm a postal worker. i know about job obsolescence. 
 
yeah.. i dream about a time where there's no need for airline pilots, locomotive engineers or elevator attendants (oh wait)... maybe in this future land people wont have to sit behind the panel of a jet airliner looking at a few mfd's for hours on end, occasionally twiddling knobs on the dash..  maybe it could be done by a computer.. or someone on the ground.

yeah. i'm really out there. 

[kvuo75]

Have you piloted a Cat III approach?  If you have not, how many have you ridden through as a passenger in the back?  If ridding in the back, can you tell if the computer is flying and landing the aircraft versus the pilot?

my understanding is cat 3 ils approaches are autopilot only..  you don't hand fly them.



edit:

ahh i see with a hud maybe you do hand fly.. i stand corrected.

[bustr]

Nope, cutting out the BS hyperbole and getting into the heart of the matter. Just like Earl and Puma and Mace.

That young man got through the system because of replacing people with computers. Earl, Puma and Mace had to go through a grinder that would have eliminated that kid at the beginning. As you replace "pilots" with kids and computers, you begin a self fulfilling prophecy of needing to finally get rid of the kids.

We don't have the Roddenberry replicator and moneyless future to take the place of people having to pay for basic goods and taxes. Roddenberry purposely never wrote the prequel story to how the humans on earth freed themselves of needing to earn a living, pay taxes, and take care of their lives. He started from the progressive distant future utopia. Unless Vulcans are supposed to land and give us the replicator and evolve us in a single generation to Roddenberry's future.

You cannot be a vibrant first would economy if computers have replaced all the workers and they depend on government allotments for basic needs. You end up with a nation of forever children in a crumbling first world infrastructure. And a government operating not much better than the USPS or DMV overseeing their basic necessities.

[PR3D4TOR]

Reality says that terror act in Europe is mostly carried out by other people than muslims
For ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

I call BS.

7/7 bombing London, Madrid train bombing, Charlie Hebdo, murder of Theo van Gogh, Glasgow airport attack, Moscow Metro bombings, Stockholm bombing, Domodedovo International Airport bombing,  Frankfurt Airport shooting, Toulouse and Montauban shootings in France, murder of British soldier Lee Rigby, La Défense attack, attempted murder of an ambassador in Czech Republic, Jewish Museum of Belgium shooting, 2014 Joué-lès-Tours stabbings, 2014 Dijon attack, December 22, 2014 car attack in Holland, 2015 Copenhagen attacks.

Brevick was a very successful terrorist, but he was one man committing one act of terrorism. The islamists may be more inept, but if you think islamic terrorism isn't the biggest threat in Europe you're fooling yourself.

[Zimme83]

Of course it is a threat, but i still dont assume that everything bad that happens are muslims fault because it isnt.

[PR3D4TOR]

You claimed "terror act in Europe is mostly carried out by other people than muslims". That is demonstrably wrong. Of course Muslims aren't responsible for "everything bad that happens", but they are responsible for a large and disproportionate percentage of terror attacks in Europe.

[Puma44]

my understanding is cat 3 ils approaches are autopilot only..  you don't hand fly them.



edit:

ahh i see with a hud maybe you do hand fly.. i stand corrected.

So, can you tell who is flying the CAT III
approach and landing, "George" or the pilot?

[Oldman731]

You claimed "terror act in Europe is mostly carried out by other people than muslims". That is demonstrably wrong. Of course Muslims aren't responsible for "everything bad that happens", but they are responsible for a large and disproportionate percentage of terror attacks in Europe.

I wonder if you folks might let up on the course which is leading to a thread lock?  Some of the things in here have been good.

- oldman

[kvuo75]

So, can you tell who is flying the CAT III
approach and landing, "George" or the pilot?

nope.

#1 i dont think there was a HUD on any airliner i've ever ridden on.
#2 i dont think i've ever seen minimums less than cat 1  -- the worst weather i remember was maybe ceiling of 400 (seeing streets and parking lots usually).

so no i have no idea.

and it's beside the point.. unless you are suggesting less technology and less automation is a better path?

[Zimme83]

I wonder if you folks might let up on the course which is leading to a thread lock?  Some of the things in here have been good.

- oldman

No reason to take it down that road. I see  o point in going any futher into the terrorism debate so i will just leave it as it is.