The remarkable airplane that failed.

[Vraciu]

So if the captain's stick malfunctions and constantly inputs full nose down... That's exactly why there's a priority button on the stick.

(Insert eyeroll here.)


Flawed. Flawed. Flawed.   A dozen ways.

But I am a dinosaur.  I prefer manual reversion.   Pure FBW is a death sentence in many instances where an ejection seat is not standard equipment.

[PR3D4TOR]

Yet the FBW Airbus airliners have a safety record second to none...

Tell me, how many times have a crew crashed the plane because they didn't trust the computer/instrumentation? How many times has the computer/instrumentation crashed the plane because the crew trusted it?

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of accidents is caused by pilot error, often in direct conflict with what the computer/instrumentation tells them to do.

No FBW Airbus has ever crashed because the pilots could not control the aircraft.

[Vraciu]

Yet the FBW Airbus airliners have a safety record second to none...

Tell me, how many times have a crew crashed the plane because they didn't trust the computer/instrumentation? How many times has the computer/instrumentation crashed the plane because the crew trusted it?

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of accidents is caused by pilot error, often in direct conflict with what the computer/instrumentation tells them to do.

No FBW Airbus has ever crashed because the pilots could not control the aircraft.

Second to none, huh?  I love hyperbole.

Embraer 145 series: 15 million fleet hours and counting.  ZERO fatalities.   No FBW.

Airbus: Carnage and death since day one.  FBW or not.


End of lesson.

[PR3D4TOR]

Second to none, huh?  I love hyperbole.

Embraer 145 series: 15 million fleet hours and counting.  ZERO fatalities.   No FBW.

Airbus: Carnage and death since day one.  FBW or not.


End of lesson.

The closest thing Airbus makes is the A318. It still dwarfs the ERJ 145, but it's the smallest airliner Airbus makes.

Airbus A318, 13 years of service,  ZERO fatalities.

Airbus A319, 20 years of service, ZERO fatalities. 

Airbus A340, 22 years of service,  ZERO fatalities.

Airbus A380, ZERO fatalities.

[PR3D4TOR]

The Embraer E-190 which is a better comparison to the A318 even if it is still somewhat smaller has had two fatal accidents during its 11 year service life. But hey, don't let facts get in the way...

[Vraciu]

The closest thing Airbus makes is the A318. It still dwarfs the ERJ 145, but it's the smallest airliner Airbus makes.

Airbus A318, 13 years of service,  ZERO fatalities.

Airbus A319, 20 years of service, ZERO fatalities. 

Airbus A340, 22 years of service,  ZERO fatalities.

Airbus A380, ZERO fatalities.

Nice try.  318 and 319 are 320 family.  Just like the 135, 140, 145, Legacy 600, and Legacy 650 are all 145 family. 

320 has killed hundreds of people and had so many crashes and upsets to make me never get on one (including the infamous go around into the trees by the chief demo pilot). 

[Vraciu]

The Embraer E-190 which is a better comparison to the A318 even if it is still somewhat smaller has had two fatal accidents during its 11 year service life. But hey, don't let facts get in the way...

You said second to none.  I proved to you that the EMB-145 family is superior to all Airbus aircraft in terms of safety.   It isn't even a contest.

[Vraciu]

The closest thing Airbus makes is the A318. It still dwarfs the ERJ 145, but it's the smallest airliner Airbus makes.

Airbus A318, 13 years of service,  ZERO fatalities.

Airbus A319, 20 years of service, ZERO fatalities. 

Airbus A340, 22 years of service,  ZERO fatalities.

Airbus A380, ZERO fatalities.

Notice no mention of 300, 320, or 330.   The latter two being the same family as listed above. 

[PR3D4TOR]

Notice no mention of 300, 320, or 330.   The latter two being the same family as listed above.

You singled out one Embraer type.

So you're saying Embraer in total has a better safety record than airbus in total for all types?

[Vraciu]

You singled out one Embraer type.

So you're saying Embraer in total has a better safety record than airbus in total for all types?

It might.   The point is that the 145 series is the safest airplane ever made.   I am betting all Embraer jets beat all Airbus jets in terms of safety when aggregated. 


The 145 family is the safest airplane ever made.   So far.

[PR3D4TOR]

According to airsafe.com the A320 family has a fatal accident rate of 0.10 per one million flights, so one fatal accident per ten million flights (whole flights, not hours). The B737 family has a rate of 0.28 (to be fair I guess newer models have a better rating than the older).

The Embraer Bandeirante looks to be a death trap at 3.07, and the Embraer Brasilia is at 0.71.

The ERJ 145 has a perfect safety rating, but with such a low production run and number of flights it will only take one stupid pilot error for it to have a horrible rating like its two stablemates above. You say it has 15 million flight hours, but has it even reached ten million flights? If not then its record is no better than the A320 and potentially worse. For the Concorde it only took one accident to take it from perfect safety to worst in business.

[PR3D4TOR]

Another thing you need to consider is that the closer you get to the third world, Africa in particular, accident rates tend to increase. I don't know where the ERJ 145 mostly fly, but the A320 has had no fatal accidents in North America.

[Vraciu]

Another thing you need to consider is that the closer you get to the third world, Africa in particular, accident rates tend to increase. I don't know where the ERJ 145 mostly fly, but the A320 has had no fatal accidents in North America.

I fly a Legacy in Nigeria.  We are crawling with EMBs here.   In Africa.  We still have a perfect record.

What you fail to notice is that the 145 compiled this safety record being flown primarily in Regional Airline use.  That means often the right seater was in his first jet, having flown a Seminole or a Seneca for 100-200 hours prior to landing a jet job.

Embraer does it right.   Airbus is a pretender.


(Airbus doesn't crash in North America because they don't make it across the pond.  They crash mid-Atlantic.  Unless we ignore the Long Island, NY USA Airbus 300 tail shedding accident, that is.    Facts are so fickle.)

[PR3D4TOR]

American Airlines is the largest operator of Airbus A320 family aircraft in the world. United Airlines is not far behind.

[Vraciu]

American Airlines is the largest operator of Airbus A320 family aircraft in the world. United Airlines is not far behind.

Yes because American (Boeing, MD) merged with Airways (Bus).   And Continental (Boeing) merged with United (Boeing, Bus).

It was NOT an indigenous choice. 

737 > A320