Biggest "crutch" plane of AH

[Skyyr]

I think the term "crutch plane" is a bit misleading. If someone can beat you 9 out of 10 times (or even 10 out of 10) in any same-plane situation, then what they fly isn't a crutch. Now, if they can't win without it, then yeah, it would qualify as a crutch plane, in my opinion.

Seems to me the term "crutch plane" has more to do with people making excuses for their own subpar performance than it does about what their opponent chooses to fly. I see a lot of players fly "slow, challenging" planes because they decry ez/crutch/trainer planes, and they cry when they get wrecked in them because their opponent flew an easy plane. Seems to me if you were good enough to fly the "non-crutch" plane, you wouldn't have died in the first place.

This argument is nothing more than a disguised excuse for subpar performance against an opponent.

That being said, I find the easiest planes to be all of the Spits (except the 14), especially the Spit 16, Ki-84, LA-7, N1K, F4U's, K-4, and the Tempest.

Planes like the D9 and Pony (even though I don't really like it) I don't consider easy-mode, because while they are fast and can run, they aren't very hard to beat when they choose to fight. It takes a decent amount of skill to get a lot of offensive value out of them 1v1.

[Mister Fork]

You and Tilt have said essentially the same thing.  I suppose "crutch" can be viewed as a crutch to keep you alive, or, alternatively, as a crutch to help you win a fight.  The OP (I think) and I were speaking of the second meaning.  The fast, big-gun planes will keep you alive, but (other than plucking the unwary as you zoom through a furball) won't help you win a fight as much as the dancers will.

- oldman

OM - back in the day the NIK2 used to be a big clutch plane no (to help win a fight) - remember the uproar when it first came out?  That machine was something to be feared if you were a USN/USAAF driver, unless you were Laser or Animal.

If you haven't flown in a while and want to get back up to speed again, a good 'crutch' plane is the Ki-84 as mentioned by Randy and others...and as OM said, the Yak-3 is great too because it can turn, it can climb, and it will basically outfly most B&Z tards... (and yes I know I'm a B&Z tard)

[DmonSlyr]

I think the term "crutch plane" is a bit misleading. If someone can beat you 9 out of 10 times (or even 10 out of 10) in any same-plane situation, then what they fly isn't a crutch. Now, if they can't win without it, then yeah, it would qualify as a crutch plane, in my opinion.

Seems to me the term "crutch plane" has more to do with people making excuses for their own subpar performance than it does about what their opponent chooses to fly. I see a lot of players fly "slow, challenging" planes because they decry ez/crutch/trainer planes, and they cry when they get wrecked in them because their opponent flew an easy plane. Seems to me if you were good enough to fly the "non-crutch" plane, you wouldn't have died in the first place.

This argument is nothing more than a disguised excuse for subpar performance against an opponent.

That being said, I find the easiest planes to be all of the Spits (except the 14), especially the Spit 16, Ki-84, LA-7, N1K, F4U's, K-4, and the Tempest.

Planes like the D9 and Pony (even though I don't really like it) I don't consider easy-mode, because while they are fast and can run, they aren't very hard to beat when they choose to fight. It takes a decent amount of skill to get a lot of offensive value out of them 1v1.

While the level and experience do have a lot to add to context of "crutch" some planes are just easier to fly regardless of their turning abilities.

I wouldn't say a spit5 is a noob plane in the MA. You should have seen it 6 years ago before they chopped the plane in half, it was a monster. The Ki84 and F4Us can easily be out ran, while I personally believe the F4U takes a lot of experience to be good in and the Ki84 is mearly the trainer, although you still have to set up kills when attacking high from a base, and in the FSOs its tough vs the high american planes. Planes that cannot dive well in the game are huge degrading factors which is why I don't consider any of the 109s a cruch plane. The K4 is about the easiest one to fly, but you have to set up shots with the plane and that takes an experienced pilot, you cannot just BnZ for easy kills in the K4 and expect to get a lot of kills.

The P51 and 190D can easily run away when they lose advantage. It happened to me about 8 times yesterday. IMO that is a huge crutch. My plane cannot run away sometimes, so I get caught by yaks and 190s in my G2 then have to fight the BnZers and all the others that choose to jump into the fight. Since my plane cannot extend away I may get caught in the gang. Therefore the situation becomes more challenging and I have to use expereinced skills to maybe win the 3 on 1 but many times I don't win when 4 planes jump me. That is the struggle with flying slower planes.

Speed is the biggest crutch in WW2 planes or aviation in general. If you got a fast plane and fly it fast no one can catch you and using E to avoid or rope planes is the essential tactic to these planes.


And Joachim I hate the A6Ms too! Thing can turn and then climb so well! You want to fight them but they are just like Nat's!

[Zimme83]

Brewster and Ki-43 is not easy mode. Thy can turn but it pretty much it. U have to work a lot just to get a chance to kill someone and most of the time u have to rely on misstakes from their part to be able to kill them (luckily those misstakes are very common) And on the other hand u can never leave a fight. U have to fight it out no matter what.

Spits allows u to do a lot of misstakes and still make it out. U dont need to be über in a Pony to be succesful so i will vote on those 2.

[Skyyr]

While the level and experience do have a lot to add to context of "crutch" some planes are just easier to fly regardless of their turning abilities.

I wouldn't say a spit5 is a noob plane in the MA. You should have seen it 6 years ago before they chopped the plane in half, it was a monster. The Ki84 and F4Us can easily be out ran, while I personally believe the F4U takes a lot of experience to be good in and the Ki84 is mearly the trainer, although you still have to set up kills when attacking high from a base, and in the FSOs its tough vs the high american planes. Planes that cannot dive well in the game are huge degrading factors which is why I don't consider any of the 109s a cruch plane. The K4 is about the easiest one to fly, but you have to set up shots with the plane and that takes an experienced pilot, you cannot just BnZ for easy kills in the K4 and expect to get a lot of kills.

The P51 and 190D can easily run away when they lose advantage. It happened to me about 8 times yesterday. IMO that is a huge crutch. My plane cannot run away sometimes, so I get caught by yaks and 190s in my G2 then have to fight the BnZers and all the others that choose to jump into the fight. Since my plane cannot extend away I may get caught in the gang. Therefore the situation becomes more challenging and I have to use expereinced skills to maybe win the 3 on 1 but many times I don't win when 4 planes jump me. That is the struggle with flying slower planes.

Speed is the biggest crutch in WW2 planes or aviation in general. If you got a fast plane and fly it fast no one can catch you and using E to avoid or rope planes is the essential tactic to these planes.


And Joachim I hate the A6Ms too! Thing can turn and then climb so well! You want to fight them but they are just like Nat's!

Like I said, if a player is using a plane as a crutch, then they should be rather easy to beat 1v1. If they're not, then it's not a crutch. Therein lies the basis of the argument. To claim a player is using any plane as a crutch, when that player could beat their opponent easily same plane vs same plane, does not pass the logic litmus test.

Now, if you're saying that a crutch plane is used to survive multi-plane encounters, that argument is flawed as well. Any two planes, flown correctly (Robert Shaw outlines this very well in his dissimilar aircraft tactics section), will end up in a relatively prolonged engagement. Therefore, to claim that a plane is crutch because a player is using it to survive a 1v2, 1v3, etc. is backwards.

If you're routinely surviving 1v2's and 1v3's, etc., it's not because you're good, it's because your opponents are terrible. You outlined this quite well in your 1v3 video, where all of the opponents tried to turn with you. Had any one of them broken off and built up speed and came back, you'd have likely lost. However, none of them did. You won because their flying was incompetent (not to detract from your own skill whatsoever), not because you necessarily outflew them.

Ergo, the idea of "needing" a crutch plane to survive in a multiples situation is based on the idea that a pilot can take on two equally-skilled opponents and win consistently. That is not only illogical, it contradicts everything learned in ACM.

It all goes back to ACM 101, energy vs angles. If you don't "need" a fast plane to fight multiple opponents, then your competition sucks (sorry, it's the truth). Now, you may think/feel/believe otherwise, but I'd be willing to take you in the DA with me and Kruel and do several 2v1's - you wouldn't stand a chance. And it wouldn't be a reflection of your skill, it's simply ACM tactics. A single opponent cannot win against two competent opponents in similar aircraft (barring the rare one-in-a-million lucky shot scenarios that can occur for any player).

So we're back to my original point - a plane can only be a "crutch" if it's needed to win 1v1. And, truth be told, there are several crutch pilots (ROCKY comes to mind with his runstang). However, it's the pilot that makes the plane a "crutch" plane, not vice-versa. If said opponent can beat someone else in like planes, then the plane isn't a crutch whatsoever.

[Oyabun]

A "crutch" aircraft is one that has wings.


Exhibit A.

edit: all the giggling in the video you would think someone is having too much fun with a feather........ 

[Someguy63]

A "crutch" aircraft is one that has wings.


Exhibit A.

edit: all the giggling in the video you would think someone is having too much fun with a feather........ 

You keep posting videos I never see anything but blank space. Are you using that youtube feature provided here?

[Zimme83]

Like I said, if a player is using a plane as a crutch, then they should be rather easy to beat 1v1. If they're not, then it's not a crutch. Therein lies the basis of the argument. To claim a player is using any plane as a crutch, when that player could beat their opponent easily same plane vs same plane, does not pass the logic litmus test.

Now, if you're saying that a crutch plane is used to survive multi-plane encounters, that argument is flawed as well. Any two planes, flown correctly (Robert Shaw outlines this very well in his dissimilar aircraft tactics section), will end up in a relatively prolonged engagement. Therefore, to claim that a plane is crutch because a player is using it to survive a 1v2, 1v3, etc. is backwards.

If you're routinely surviving 1v2's and 1v3's, etc., it's not because you're good, it's because your opponents are terrible. You outlined this quite well in your 1v3 video, where all of the opponents tried to turn with you. Had any one of them broken off and built up speed and came back, you'd have likely lost. However, none of them did. You won because their flying was incompetent (not to detract from your own skill whatsoever), not because you necessarily outflew them.

Ergo, the idea of "needing" a crutch plane to survive in a multiples situation is based on the idea that a pilot can take on two equally-skilled opponents and win consistently. That is not only illogical, it contradicts everything learned in ACM.

It all goes back to ACM 101, energy vs angles. If you don't "need" a fast plane to fight multiple opponents, then your competition sucks (sorry, it's the truth). Now, you may think/feel/believe otherwise, but I'd be willing to take you in the DA with me and Kruel and do several 2v1's - you wouldn't stand a chance. And it wouldn't be a reflection of your skill, it's simply ACM tactics. A single opponent cannot win against two competent opponents in similar aircraft (barring the rare one-in-a-million lucky shot scenarios that can occur for any player).

So we're back to my original point - a plane can only be a "crutch" if it's needed to win 1v1. And, truth be told, there are several crutch pilots (ROCKY comes to mind with his runstang). However, it's the pilot that makes the plane a "crutch" plane, not vice-versa. If said opponent can beat someone else in like planes, then the plane isn't a crutch whatsoever.

Agree.

[Delirium]

It all goes back to ACM 101, energy vs angles. If you don't "need" a fast plane to fight multiple opponents, then your competition sucks (sorry, it's the truth).

Speed is the cushion of sloppiness, as Driscoll once said. Admittedly speed also dominates the field, particularly in a scenario environment. However, speed and energy (read advantage) is the quickest way to replace your Ambien for those nights filled with insomnia.

[Latrobe]

A "crutch" aircraft is one that has wings.


Exhibit A.

edit: all the giggling in the video you would think someone is having too much fun with a feather........ 

Glzz's Struggle! 


Wings are overrated

[Skyyr]

Speed is the cushion of sloppiness, as Driscoll once said. Admittedly speed also dominates the field, particularly in a scenario environment. However, speed and energy (read advantage) is the quickest way to replace your Ambien for those nights filled with insomnia.

While needing a faster plane than your opponent to generate speed might be sloppy, generating a speed advantage in same/similar planes is not. In fact, allowing your opponent to generate an airspeed and/or altitude advantage over you when fighting similar aircraft is generally the result of sloppy handling on the part of the turnfighter. Ironic when considered in the context of your statement, actually.

A speed advantage, to be used for a positional advantage in what usually ends as a rolling scissors, it is the preferred end-game of ACM (at least according to every ACM expert in the last 50 years).

[Oyabun]

See Rule #6

[Oyabun]

Glzz's Struggle! 


Wings are overrated

The struggle is realz!!!! 

[Someguy63]

Yes Anarchy, I am posting video using the embed feature on the BBS. I like you, did notice that when using my phone to view the BBS I can not see the embedded videos as well... it is just a blank space where something should be.

As Dahmer would say....    <middlefinger>     

Indeed

<middlefinger>
 

[DmonSlyr]

Like I said, if a player is using a plane as a crutch, then they should be rather easy to beat 1v1. If they're not, then it's not a crutch. Therein lies the basis of the argument. To claim a player is using any plane as a crutch, when that player could beat their opponent easily same plane vs same plane, does not pass the logic litmus test.

Now, if you're saying that a crutch plane is used to survive multi-plane encounters, that argument is flawed as well. Any two planes, flown correctly (Robert Shaw outlines this very well in his dissimilar aircraft tactics section), will end up in a relatively prolonged engagement. Therefore, to claim that a plane is crutch because a player is using it to survive a 1v2, 1v3, etc. is backwards.

If you're routinely surviving 1v2's and 1v3's, etc., it's not because you're good, it's because your opponents are terrible. You outlined this quite well in your 1v3 video, where all of the opponents tried to turn with you. Had any one of them broken off and built up speed and came back, you'd have likely lost. However, none of them did. You won because their flying was incompetent (not to detract from your own skill whatsoever), not because you necessarily outflew them.

Ergo, the idea of "needing" a crutch plane to survive in a multiples situation is based on the idea that a pilot can take on two equally-skilled opponents and win consistently. That is not only illogical, it contradicts everything learned in ACM.

It all goes back to ACM 101, energy vs angles. If you don't "need" a fast plane to fight multiple opponents, then your competition sucks (sorry, it's the truth). Now, you may think/feel/believe otherwise, but I'd be willing to take you in the DA with me and Kruel and do several 2v1's - you wouldn't stand a chance. And it wouldn't be a reflection of your skill, it's simply ACM tactics. A single opponent cannot win against two competent opponents in similar aircraft (barring the rare one-in-a-million lucky shot scenarios that can occur for any player).

So we're back to my original point - a plane can only be a "crutch" if it's needed to win 1v1. And, truth be told, there are several crutch pilots (ROCKY comes to mind with his runstang). However, it's the pilot that makes the plane a "crutch" plane, not vice-versa. If said opponent can beat someone else in like planes, then the plane isn't a crutch whatsoever.

I'm just going to have to disagree with you. It's alright, you have your logical ideas as do I, but 1v1 in the same planes is different than 1v1 in the MA with the same planes or not. In the MA, a plane that can dive from 15k to 8K going 580 to escape their oppoenet is a crutch. The logic you are applying is 2 different circumstances, you may be able to out fly them 1v1 in 109fs in the DA, but flying the 109f in the MA is a different circumstance because you have high 190Ds all around you tryin to pick and catch you from getting out of the fights, it is a very important crutch for many pilots who fly the plane. Just because you can beat them in the same plane doesn't mean that the plane you choose in the MA isn't advantageous over some other planes in the MA. I'd saying flying a plane that can run out of trouble is very advantageous to making it home alive. That's just the truth. The pilot does account for the plane but if you fly the plane correctly, like a 190D it will have 10X more advantage over a 109g2 in the majority of all aspects of the fight unless somehow the G2 catches it from a dive or the 190D tries to turn fight. Even if you could beat the G2 pilot in a G2. The 190D still has the crutch advantage over the G2 because it can simply out perform the G2 in speed and E retention, given 2 equal pilots.

You could use defense ACM all day long, but if a plane that excels in E retention and speed has that advanatage over you in the fight, the attacker should win the fight. The point is not necessarily winning the fight either, it is getting away from the fight, that is why it is more beneficial to fly the 190D compared to a 109g2. The 190D could escape a troubling situation where as the 109g2 wouldn't be able too. In the FSO, you can really tell how the planes fly because most squads fly at max alts. When your plane can't even climb to their max alts, you are already at a disadvantage. The MA is different because you have all types of planes trying to engange you. Flying the fastest plane is a major crutch, IMO, however if you are a bad pilot than you arent using the plane correctly and therefore it is not the plane it is the pilot, anyone can fly a plane terribly.

I shouldn't win any 3 or 2 vs1 fights at all. Especially when I don't have an alt or E advantage. 90% of the MA would use their crutch p51 and run a way from those 3 con's. I was in a la7, I could have ran, but I wanted to challenge myself. I should have lossed all day long, but yes a little bit of skill played in that, and yes those pilots were not prepared for what I did to them. They all could have extended and BnZ ropped me all day long. But since they didn't know how to fly the plane to its max performance that it is their fault. So when an easy plane is flown to max performance and flown correctly is has a much larger crutch over any plane they come across in the MA simply because the plane itself can perform better. 

90% of the MA use their crutch planes to avoid 3 v1 and 2v 1s by running away from them so I don't see how you think that argument is flawwed lol. It is a crutch because if it weren't for their planes incrredible acceleration and dive speed, they would have been dead after I reversed them, instead they fly straight and hit the gas peddle which doesn't take much skill, it is using the plane for what it can do to stay alive. Some planes are much easier than others.