Russia's crummy little stealth fighter

[FBKampfer]

FBKampfer, I'll ask again: In your opinion what should "the requirements for their next Gen fighter" have been, and how does the F-35 not meet those requirements?

Who's? The US military's or Russia's?

[PR3D4TOR]

F-35.

And I hold a similar view of the F35. Only we built it for a current war, and misjudged the requirements.

[artik]

From the beginning Ive told people this project was a piece of crap. Russia has been spinning it around air shows trying to convince the world its very first attempt at stealth has jumped three generations ahead of the Yanks.

And then each time west becomes surprised how did these russkies created such a deadly plane

- MiG-15 - oooops big surprise
- MiG-21 - oooops apparently it is great plane, encounter it - go low and run for your life
- MiG-29/Su-27 - ooops apparently they one of the best short range missiles and helmet mounted sight and absolutely deadly in close combat (it took about 15-20 years to west to get such stuff)

Ahhh one more... another wooden wonder around is La-5/7 - BTW top ww2 allied ace Kozhedub had flown this wooden wonder.

I always wonder when West would stop consistently underestimate Russian designs. I assume that Chinese would finally have their plane that does not fall far from western but cheaper and in greater numbers.

I'm not telling that Sukhoi PAK FA is not in problem especially after Putin puts hist own country into economical death spiral.

But yet forgetting history is something very-very common

Look at the problems were having with the F-35, our 4th stealth airplane.

The problem with F-35 isn't its stealth. But rather an attempt to design 3 planes in one by a committee, push every possible and impossible tested and untested technology call everything else obsolete and finally not doing proper risk management.
 
Take a look on F-117... Have blue had flown first time in 1977 and in 1983 F-117 entered service (6 years from the concept design to service) and F-117 first flight was in 1981(!).

It was good design that concentrated in a specific task.

What F-35? Is exact opposite, no wonder it didn't "fully take off" yet.

[Rich46yo]

Well its hard not to "underestimate" an airplane so badly designed even the designer wont build it or share any info with the co-financier, and only customer. Were not talking legacy fighters here, were talking stealth ones. Its like comparing vacuum tubes to super computers.

The Chinese have a worse record of engine design then even the Russians and there is no hard evidence to think theirs will be any better. Do remember both are closed societys and release only what info they want to. Meanwhile the Mil/Indust power in the west love to tag along cause it gets them very big budgets for new shiny toys that make them a lot of money.

The F117 was developed during the height of the Cold War which could have gotten "hot" very, very quickly. There were no financial constraints attached to it, no congressional oversight, no people from a dozen countries posting in forums about it. It was a one sentence black hole in a budget report where endless streams of money poured in with no questions asked. Also, compared to the F35, its a very simple airplane.

[Plawranc]

The Russians are far more capable and far more deadly an adversary than many realize. And Putin is quite possibly the most dangerous man in a position of power in the world. Underestimating either the Russians or their leader is a grave mistake that many a man has made. And all of them lived to regret it... and died because of it. 

[FBKampfer]

F-35.

Should have done just two versions, one for Army and Marines, one for the Navy.


Both should have an internal gun. We've seen close air support is still useful, and that a gun is useful for CAS flights.

Large surge capacity, through simplicity and modularity of design. If we get in a large scale conflict, we need to be able to replace losses.

Centralized manufacturing. Radar and screens are one thing. But if the bastards don't make an ejector seat or the mounting hardware for the P&W engine, or whatever it is, they need to license the parts and tool up to crank them out right along side the airframe.

And to be clear, I didn't intend to say we've grossly misjudged requirements, only that we've made a mistake similar in kind, not in scale, as was made with the PAK-FA. Primarily, it seems to be because we're trying to build for and sell to everyone and their grandmother.

It's understandable, just not forgivable.

[Brooke]

And Putin is quite possibly the most dangerous man in a position of power in the world.

If you mean dangerous to the US, then I'd have to say he is at best a distant 2nd most dangerous, behind [can't say].

[FBKampfer]

If you mean dangerous to the US, then I'd have to say he is at best a distant 2nd most dangerous, behind [can't say].

Since when did Americans become so polarized, paranoid, and illogical about their politics?

[Zimme83]

Since when did Americans become so polarized, paranoid, and illogical about their politics?

 

[Skyyr]

Since when did Americans become so polarized, paranoid, and illogical about their politics?

You mean like the rest of the world? Still got a ways to go there. 

[Rich46yo]

Well except for nukes they really cant use, or they themselves would go <poof>, they actually have a very limited ability to project power other then right on their peripheries. They cant send airfields anywhere in the world at 30 knots, they have limited air lift, limited amphibious capability, their air force is far, far weaker then ours. Really across the board they are no match and when Putin says Russia isnt a threat to America and the west he means it. Where he is a threat is places like Ukraine where he can chip his way back to a semblance of an Empire while NATO is weak minded and in no mood to fight him over what they believe are scraps.

Like just Air Force-wise http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/us-and-russian-military-aircraft-full-comparison.html And when you figure in training, maintenance, interoperablity, avionics, networkcentricity and overall support the gap even widens more. Naval-wise they have always been hampered by geography and the USN keeps ruthlessly grinding on and on with technological advancements. Lasers, rail guns, stealth, sub hunting drones, improved missilry, mobility. Add to all that we have alliances and friends who share Democratic values. http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/27/russias-navy-more-rust-than-ready/

I'd actually rate China as the more dangerous potential enemy now. Putin linked his revival/buildup so keenly on oil prices he is not at the mercy of a market nobody can really control and predict. There are to many players, many of whom dont like or trust Putin. The Chinese meanwhile, as Asians cleverly do, take the "Long View". They have already spent decades building relationships with resource rich nations and have undertaken, I believe, a more realistic military build up with long term achievable goals. That of Hegemony in Asia, most of all in resource rich area's that dont have an American presence.

The Russians are far more capable and far more deadly an adversary than many realize. And Putin is quite possibly the most dangerous man in a position of power in the world. Underestimating either the Russians or their leader is a grave mistake that many a man has made. And all of them lived to regret it... and died because of it.

Honestly if your going to make such a statement then back it up some way. It would be overly theatrical even if it was true, which it isnt.

When Moscow moved to annex Crimea in March, the U.S. Navy promptly sailed its new flattop USS George H.W. Bush into the eastern Mediterranean to reassure NATO governments. Bush‘s battle group included no fewer than 60 high-tech warplanes and several of Washington’s modern Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, armed with missiles and guns for fighting planes, submarines and other ships.

In response, the Kremlin sent in Kuznetsov. The aging carrier — much smaller than Bush — carried a dozen or so Sukhoi fighters. Her six escorts included just a single heavily-armed vessel, the Soviet-vintage nuclear cruiser Pyotr Velikiy. The other five ships included one small amphibious landing ship plus three support tankers and a tugboat.

The tugboat was along for a good reason. On the few occasions when Kuznetsov leaves port, she often promptly breaks down. In 2009, a short circuit sparked a fire that killed one seaman aboard the rusting vessel.

[Brooke]

Since when did Americans become so polarized, paranoid, and illogical about their politics?

Since when did people become so complacent, gullible, and ignorant about vital issues of governance?

[FBKampfer]

Since when did people become so complacent, gullible, and ignorant about vital issues of governance?

Late 1800's would be mtmy guess

[Gman]

I linked an article about 1/2 a year ago, from a reputable UK defense site, which did an in depth story on how India is really pissed at Russia because over 1/2 their SU fighter fleet is offline at any given time due to Russia not fixing their broken engines as they were contracted to do.  It was greater the 50% of their fighters that were constantly unable of even taking off, much less doing anything else.

[PR3D4TOR]

Half a dozen F-35B training on USS Wasp. Pretty impressive to see them go through the motions of carrier operation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv6SRY5Zj3g