A $650 system that gives 60 fps

[GSakis]

Even if you used a 144 hz monitor, there is still a failure to mention that $350 cost, because I doubt everyone has one laying around.

Nobody said anything about a 144hz monitor with the 650 dollar build.

That is an exaggeration.  Dell uses the same motherboard chipsets as ASUS or any other Intel motherboard supplier does.

Even if this is true they choose the lowest end and cheapest chip set possible that has lowest performance and least upgrade options available. Simply a smelly deal to me. Dell also used to use their own connectors in past computers which would break your computer if you tried to install a non-Dell part.

I would never tell anyone to buy a brand computer for gaming. Just the added bloatware that comes with every manufacturer is really nasty.

[Skuzzy]

Nobody said anything about a 144hz monitor with the 650 dollar build.

Even if this is true they choose the lowest end and cheapest chip set possible that has lowest performance and least upgrade options available. Simply a smelly deal to me. Dell also used to use their own connectors in past computers which would break your computer if you tried to install a non-Dell part.

I would never tell anyone to buy a brand computer for gaming. Just the added bloatware that comes with every manufacturer is really nasty.

Go to Intel's WEB site and look at the chipset options.  There is no such thing as a chipset which is not available and used by ASUS, Gigabyte, or any other motherboard manufacturer.  The only limitation Dell has is they do not have a bunch of overclocking options available in the BIOS ROM.

I am not an fan of OEM computers, but what you are saying is not true.  I used to do business with Dell.  Yes, they have had proprietary things in their computers and you have to watch for that, but things like video cards have never been proprietary, nor system RAM.

Power supplies can be tricky as they mostly use nonstandard cases which prevents a standard ATX power supply from being used, but that is not always the case either.  Many of their systems use standard ATX power supplies.

The single biggest factor in the cost of a Dell is the volume of parts they can buy, directly from the manufacturers, which helps keep the costs down.

[GSakis]

Go to Intel's WEB site and look at the chipset options.  There is no such thing as a chipset which is not available and used by ASUS, Gigabyte, or any other motherboard manufacturer.  The only limitation Dell has is they do not have a bunch of overclocking options available in the BIOS ROM.

I am not an fan of OEM computers, but what you are saying is not true.  I used to do business with Dell.  Yes, they have had proprietary things in their computers and you have to watch for that, but things like video cards have never been proprietary, nor system RAM.

Power supplies can be tricky as they mostly use nonstandard cases which prevents a standard ATX power supply from being used, but that is not always the case either.  Many of their systems use standard ATX power supplies.

The single biggest factor in the cost of a Dell is the volume of parts they can buy, directly from the manufacturers, which helps keep the costs down.

I just checked the Dell website. Their 500 price range desktop uses the Intel H81 PCH chipset which is the most limited version available. Sure you can buy one from Asus but why would you?

Here's a comparison of the chipsets: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1132-intel-haswell-chipset-comparison

With a basic Dell box a gamer can't even add another graphics card for Sli or crossfire because there are no slots!!!!!

[Skuzzy]

I just checked the Dell website. Their 500 price range desktop uses the Intel H81 PCH chipset which is the most limited version available. Sure you can buy one from Asus but why would you?

Here's a comparison of the chipsets: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1132-intel-haswell-chipset-comparison

With a basic Dell box a gamer can't even add another graphics card for Sli or crossfire because there are no slots!!!!!

Of course they have a computer with no expansion slots.  So does every other OEM on the planet, but that is not the system Brooke is talking about.

By the way, most people do not care about SLI or Crossfire support.  Just FYI.

[GSakis]

Of course they have a computer with no expansion slots.  So does every other OEM on the planet, but that is not the system Brooke is talking about.

By the way, most people do not care about SLI or Crossfire support.  Just FYI.

Did you check your facts before posting? Dell Inspiron 3000 all models have H81 chipsets according to http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-3847-desktop/pd?ref=PD_OC

[Skuzzy]

Did you check your facts before posting? Dell Inspiron 3000 all models have H81 chipsets according to http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-3847-desktop/pd?ref=PD_OC

What are you talking about?  Dell may not offer the upgrade path, but if Brooke put in a video card, then it obviously does have a PCI-e slot in it.

The H81 express chipset does have support for one 16 lane PCI-e expansion slot.  Even the ASUS motherboards have that expansion slot.

[GSakis]

What are you talking about?  Dell may not offer the upgrade path, but if Brooke put in a video card, then it obviously does have a PCI-e slot in it.

The H81 express chipset does have support for one 16 lane PCI-e expansion slot.  Even the ASUS motherboards have that expansion slot.

Of course I didn't mean it would have no PCI-E slots at all. I meant a second slot for xfire/sli. If a gamer wants to build on cheap, cutting off the possibility for a cheap sli/xfire upgrade later may prove costly.

But whatever it's no use arguing. If people want to buy cheap electronics they have to live with their decisions. I wouldn't want to!

[pembquist]

Hey GSakis you are what in carpentry we would call a tool snob, not an insult just a description, often so labeled myself. So just to stir the pot I have a question for you, I just want to play AH with average settings at 60fps, I won't play any other games and have a primitive 23" lg monitor 1680 x 1050. With that specific criteria in mind will it cost less out of pocket to build or buy. Frankly my biggest turnoff of the prebuilt is the bloatware, biggest turn off of building is selecting components.

[NatCigg]

building your own computer puts the risk on your end so a guy needs to know what he is doing.  also when you add up the costs of windows, sd slots, wireless, and bluetooth in addition to the other components that are easily over spent on building your own can be expensive.  on the other hand if you try to buy a game machine from dell your going to pay for it and most likely not get the same bang for your buck.  personally i bought a dell on sale that had the components i wanted knowing i could add a videocard later. same with the power supply cuz im looking at that 970 with lustfull eyes.  yet i could just swap out the video card considering the 960 has less power draw.

[Skuzzy]

Of course I didn't mean it would have no PCI-E slots at all. I meant a second slot for xfire/sli. If a gamer wants to build on cheap, cutting off the possibility for a cheap sli/xfire upgrade later may prove costly.

But whatever it's no use arguing. If people want to buy cheap electronics they have to live with their decisions. I wouldn't want to!

Not many people want to use SLI or Crossfire and for good reason.  If that is your criteria, then that's fine.  It happens you are in the minority on that choice.

Anyone wanting that would not go this route so I am still confused as to why you are stirring the pot in this thread?  Brooke offered up a valid suggestion.  Your disagreeing does not invalidate the suggestion.

[Spikes]

Nobody said anything about a 144hz monitor with the 650 dollar build.

How else do you plan on getting 140fps while not running the risk of getting artifacts and rubber bullets?

[Brooke]

I didn't leave anything out I posted a youtube tutorial that listed the specs. Complain to the guy who made the video if you wish.

Then you didn't post something that beats the Dell for $650.

Building yourself is better under every case except business use where you have to buy a lot of computers. That part I agree.

And for people who don't have the time (for either shopping or for developing the expertise to do the shopping/assembling).

Dell boxes have cost cuts and design changes in motherboards, bios etc.
You can't over clock a Dell box and bios/uefi settings are very limited or not even available to do any tuning.

So?  This isn't a discussion of any of that.  It is a discussion of a $650 Dell system, what's in it, and what it can measurably do.

One Dell box that I saw turned into a hoover when anything cpu heavy was run on it.

I mentioned my experience of several hundreds Dells over more than 20 years.  You seem to think that your one data point is a more powerful statistical indicator than my several hundred.

You're taking a stock Chevrolet to a race track basically. It runs but you can't win races.

Wrong.  I am talking about what a $650 Dell can do.  You said you can beat it with $650 by build it yourself.  You haven't shown that yet.

[Brooke]

It never fails for me to post anything about a Dell, prove that it is a decent budget system (decent in terms of what you get for the price), and yet have at least one built-it-yourself zealot post that I'm way off . . . but then fail to back it up.

You want to back up that a build-it-yourself system is better than the $500 Dell box?

Then do this -- post the parts, links, and prices for:

i5-4460 or better
a motherboard
a power supply
a case
a kb
a mouse
a DVD+/-RW
a hard disk
4 GB of RAM or better
Windows pro (7 or 8)

Why?  Because that's what's in the $500 Dell.

Do the above, and I will say, "OK, well done.  You are right."  Until then, I am doubtful that anyone will do anything other than tie the Dell, and then it will require mail-in rebates (which in my experience about half the time don't pay you back).

[Brooke]

By the way, I'm not against built-it-yourself.  I've done plenty in the guts of computers in my life (as well as building electronics), and when my daughters are old enough, I will have them build themselves computers (including doing the shopping for parts) as a good learning experience.

Also, I agree that you can get a machine that is nicer than a Dell by building one yourself.

My point is the the Dell system is decent in performance/price -- not that it is the highest performance -- and that it is (in my large experience) good in terms of reliability.

[Brooke]

Regarding reflections/environment - My experience with the environmental setting is that when you are in a lot of action/smoke, is when it really separates the wheat from the chaff in terms of performance/systems.  Sitting on the runway

Yep, that is true.  The issue, though, is that it takes about 100 times longer to do testing, and the testing isn't repeatable.

I've flown for a couple of years with a Dell system a bit less capable than the one I posted about above (CPU not as good as the one above).  I fly with hires textures and everything maxed out except with the environment slider set to none, no local water reflections, and no self shadow.  I fly through clouds of all sorts (as I make them for special events), in big furballs, over towns with big fights, etc., and my fps through all of that stays good (where I don't have vsync turned off, so I don't know when it is higher than 60, but I don't notice bad frame rate in such situations).