White teenager shot in back

[ink]

there is a war brewing...to many it was started a long time ago.....

sadly it is gonna get much worse before it gets better.


you have to break down to restore.

[Guppy35]

You'd think shouting, "No more pigs in our community" may have had something to do with a different reaction from the police... right outside of the jail.  


But honestly, no, I don't have any problem with that. 

That being said, your point is not lost on me.  If you're in the Oath Keepers or the Black Panthers and you take your gun to a rally or Ferguson or wherever, you accept the potential consequences if gunpowder and emotion mix.  But making that decision is up to the individual or group, not you or I.

Interesting trade off don't you think?  Those who bring thier guns have to live with the conseqences of thier choice.  Sadly those who don't bring guns have to live with the choice too.

So it still those compensating for the smallest joystick who set the tone.  And that to me is frightening.  So much for a civilized society.

[Guppy35]

there is a war brewing...to many it was started a long time ago.....

sadly it is gonna get much worse before it gets better.


you have to break down to restore.

And sadly for many on both sides of that war seem to be wishing it would happen fast so they can "go tactical"

[ink]

And sadly for many on both sides of that war seem to be wishing it would happen fast so they can "go tactical"

absolutely on both sides....you are so correct.


I don't understand the proclivity to violence humans have....

[Changeup]

And sadly for many on both sides of that war seem to be wishing it would happen fast so they can "go tactical"

The truly sad part is 90% don't know what "going tactical" means, how it's used, or when it's used.  They believe if you have a ghillie suit you ordered from bushrag.com and a deer rifle with a scope, you're a sniper.  Virtually none of them can fire their weapons in a straight line under duress.  But they sure dress the part.  Oath Keepers and Black Panthers remind me of baseball's 5'Oclock hitters.  Ever heard the term?  All of these paramilitary groups are 5 O clock hitters.

It's defined here for your information and viewing pleasure. 

[Triton28]

Interesting trade off don't you think?  Those who bring thier guns have to live with the conseqences of thier choice.  Sadly those who don't bring guns have to live with the choice too.

So it still those compensating for the smallest joystick who set the tone.  And that to me is frightening.  So much for a civilized society.

The time honored debate:  Individual liberty vs.  Safety of society.

There's never an easy answer, but I enjoy the conversation.   

[ink]

The time honored debate:  Individual liberty vs.  Safety of society.

There's never an easy answer, but I enjoy the conversation.   

"In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war* and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms*, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny.  If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"

this is quite powerful

[Changeup]

"In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war* and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our resistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms*, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny.  If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"

this is quite powerful

INK,

Sam Adams speech has nothing to do with vigilante peacekeepers.  Sam was motivating people to do the very thing you claimed earlier to not understand....prepare to commit violence in the name of freedom.  Ferguson people arent fighting for freedom.  They're just pissed off and too stupid to do something the right way

[Aspen]

"He who has strength to chain down the wolf is a madman if he let him loose without drawing his teeth and paring his nails."

Regardless of where this thread drifted, that was a badass speech Adam's gave.

[ink]

INK,

Sam Adams speech has nothing to do with vigilante peacekeepers.  Sam was motivating people to do the very thing you claimed earlier to not understand....prepare to commit violence in the name of freedom.  Ferguson people arent fighting for freedom.  They're just pissed off and too stupid to do something the right way

I do not understand how some people Love violence....

maybe I do understand it better then I realize, I lived a life of violence...but I was also blind and did not see what life was about or how important the gift of life is....


people are angry...not just over that shooting that caused the riots...people everywhere are tired of being abused...its been going on for a very long time....

its so far deeper then just Ferguson...


violence should be the last resort...the very last resort...I do believe that...


some people understand only violence though....no matter how much you try to change a thought process some people will only learn through pain.

[Guppy35]

The truly sad part is 90% don't know what "going tactical" means, how it's used, or when it's used.  They believe if you have a ghillie suit you ordered from bushrag.com and a deer rifle with a scope, you're a sniper.  Virtually none of them can fire their weapons in a straight line under duress.  But they sure dress the part.  Oath Keepers and Black Panthers remind me of baseball's 5'Oclock hitters.  Ever heard the term?  All of these paramilitary groups are 5 O clock hitters.

It's defined here for your information and viewing pleasure. 

Amen to that. 

[Guppy35]

I do not understand how some people Love violence....

maybe I do understand it better then I realize, I lived a life of violence...but I was also blind and did not see what life was about or how important the gift of life is....


people are angry...not just over that shooting that caused the riots...people everywhere are tired of being abused...its been going on for a very long time....

its so far deeper then just Ferguson...


violence should be the last resort...the very last resort...I do believe that...


some people understand only violence though....no matter how much you try to change a thought process some people will only learn through pain.

I remember as a little kid seeing the riots in Detroit, Watts, Plainfield etc on TV and asking my parents what it was about.  They did their best to explain it to me, but I was too young to really get it.  Having been lucky enough to have been born into a family that was settled and safe, and allowed the chance to get a good education and go out and make a life for myself, I can't claim to know what its like, but I've worked with enough kids over the years who didn't know where the next meal was coming from.  It made it easy to understand why paying attention in school was less important and why that anger begins to fester.

My daughter teaches at a school where 90 percent of the kids get their breakfast and lunch at school.  Again smart kids with little hope, just wondering if they'll have supper when they get home, and  where home might be that night. 

It isn't all about 'pulling up by the boot straps".  A lot of it is that history you are talking about where that anger is the only thing you can really claim as your own.

[guncrasher]

a few years back, my mom was stopped in arizona on the way to mexico.  when she explained she was a us citizen, the police officer said that there was no way she could be a citizen.  she has a heavy mexican accent, made even worst as she got scared.

I can go on and talk about the time when I used to be in north carolina and every now and then I would go into a store and some clerk would tell me to go somewhere else, because he/she wasnt gonna help me.  when I was with my ex girlfriend who was white a couple of times we were looked at different because they saw me as another illegal alien trying to get a green card.

just last saturday I was waiting for this girl to come and have a couple of drinks with me.  there was a wedding going on next door and saw this 3 kids, 20 something talking about how they were bored and should try to pick up a girl.  when my friend showed up, they looked at her and said  she looked nice and too bad she wasnt white.

even at work, I hear my coworkers talk about this black guys and call him demeaning names like "maya" and "hediondo".  I always tell them how would you guys like to be called wetbacks.

when I first joined the marines, this white kid, he meant nothing, but just asked me why I wanted to join, he asked me if it was the money.  I told him I was making 1800 a month and quit to earn 599 I think.  I also told him because this was my country too.  he kindda looked at me weird first.  then he just smiled and walked away.  I guess he understood.

some guys say, it wasnt me and that is probably right. it wasnt you, but then again we all know prejudiced people and sometimes we stopped them and some other times we dont.

point is we are all screwed up as a group due to a minority from each side and either we all help each other for the best or we all are really are gonna pay for it.

keep saying it wasnt me and it will really soon come out that it was actually you too.

semp

[ink]

I remember as a little kid seeing the riots in Detroit, Watts, Plainfield etc on TV and asking my parents what it was about.  They did their best to explain it to me, but I was too young to really get it.  Having been lucky enough to have been born into a family that was settled and safe, and allowed the chance to get a good education and go out and make a life for myself, I can't claim to know what its like, but I've worked with enough kids over the years who didn't know where the next meal was coming from.  It made it easy to understand why paying attention in school was less important and why that anger begins to fester.

My daughter teaches at a school where 90 percent of the kids get their breakfast and lunch at school.  Again smart kids with little hope, just wondering if they'll have supper when they get home, and  where home might be that night. 

It isn't all about 'pulling up by the boot straps".  A lot of it is that history you are talking about where that anger is the only thing you can really claim as your own.

 

[bustr]

Semp it distills down to, love others as you love yourself, forgive others as you ask to be forgiven, and love the sinner but, hate the sin. None of us get off this ship alive in the end.

It's been 2000 years since this was first spoken, and still these three states of mind are the hardest for humans to achieve about those not their family, tribe, or race. And barely at times towards the aforementioned. Condemnation becomes the coin of the realm.

Most people do not understand the original language source for two very important admonishments or laws from the original Hebrew.

"Judge not lest ye be judged" was really "Condemn not lest thy be condemned.".

"Thou shalt not kill" was really "Thou shalt not murder.".

You judge every moment of your day to make choices. Condemnation is permanent and reserved for someone else who can condemn you for eternity versus you as a human cannot actually condemn someone to anything in this life but physical death. As long as you are alive you can judge your circumstance and make changes. You have the right to kill to save your life or defend that of others. No one has the right to murder another, which was what many Kings in Europe up to and past King James did to force obedience and worship of their power. Or be condemned to physical death.

Short of a mental defect, anyone can be trained without knowing it visa poor life choices, or willingly like a soldier, to respond without conscious thought with violence. If it is not impaired by a mental defect, you can also choose to train that out of yourself by conscious effort and the help of a professional. Or by choosing to walk away from the original bad choices and life style. Everyone knows someone who when young was a criminal who now is a family man with kids.

The real miracle is that we can changes these things by exercising our power of choice.