Stock markets doom !

[DmonSlyr]

Violator, I see 2 things you can do if you do not agree with how US business conducts themselves.

Stop doing business with them.

Create your own business and show them how it should be done.

Everything else is just sour grapes.  No one owes you anything because you went to college.

Once I get enough experience to learn how to fully operate a business I will take that risk, although I still haven't figured out the right product/service yet either.

See that's the problem I see Zoney, people have taken the time and money to learn the skills necessary in order to make a wage where they don't have to depend on their parents anymore. At least that's what every business owner would say. Go get an education! Great we have one now, and they aren't backing up their words.  The corporate or functional businesses in America are hardly paying these college students with great skills already to live on their own, much less pay insurance and other bills. So the problem is that more and more people are paying thousands to benefit their career while businesses owners aren't acknowledging those gained skills with pay. You have to realize that people are getting more and more educated which in turn is limiting the demand for higher paying jobs. If more people study busineses administration they should have the skills necessary to do a busineses corporate job,  however, there are more people who have the skills so they can devalue the pay to get cheap labor based on the market demand for the position. What's happening is that 15 years from, when more careers like HR get automated, not only will less people be working, the ones who do get paid won't reap any of the productivity growth because there will be tons of educated people they can hire for cheap. As this progresses, there value of labor will shrink,  while millions are already in huge financial debt due to loans they thought would get them the skills necessary to pay a proper living wage. So if college doesn't get me a good paying job, if not going to college doesn't get me a good paying job, then what we are going to see is more and more taxes being used for welfare benefit which will also hurt the busineses owners. Cheap labor comes with a future cost that eventually no one will be able to support themselves because supply of goods will deminish based of being able to buy large quantities for cheap, so prices will artificially inflate due to supply restrictions, while the middle class wont be able to purchase these supplies with the minimal salaries they make. The wage gap increases, the prices go up anyway, and the society as a whole cannot prospper because all the growth in the company is being handed out to officers instead of allocating more to the workers.
It's a grim perspective I have overall on the nation. How do you make people happy so they quit squeaking and asking more from the government, you take a risk, and a hit, and you pay them better. If retail businesses could do this, socitey overall would become more prosperous, more productive or encouraged in their work, and less government handouts would need to happen, infact the tax money the Gment made from these increases would only help them as well. IMO, it's a cause and effect type situation that needs to happen or we wont be "merica" anymore.

[Zoney]

I think you are making a mistake when you assume education means, "go to college".

Education, experience., talent, vision and drive all have value.  This value is not set by the person that has them, they are set by those who want to use them, to take advantage of them.  Taking advantage of them does not make anyone a bad person, neither the person that has them nor the person that employs someone that has them.

[ink]

I think you are making a mistake when you assume education means, "go to college".

Education, experience., talent, vision and drive all have value.  This value is not set by the person that has them, they are set by those who want to use them, to take advantage of them.  Taking advantage of them does not make anyone a bad person, neither the person that has them nor the person that employs someone that has them.

if you take advantage of them and dont pay them for whatever "it" is worth...is most certainly wrong....

especially if what they have is a rare thing...

[Zoney]

I did not say "take an unfair advantage of them".

[DmonSlyr]

I did not say "take an unfair advantage of them".

But this is what is happening.

If a person works full time 8-10 hours a day and has worked for a company for 1-3 years, and they are getting paid 9.50 an hour after a $1 raise. Honestly this is BS and does nothing to benefit anyone, they are still in the same position they were 2 years ago with a 8.50 wage. So all that selling, time, energy, dealing with customers, so on ect, has literally only granted them about $20 a week more than they were getting paid before. Even though their skills in the position have drastically increased along with their productivity. In the end, these people still cannot afford to better themselves, their children grow up in the same poverty, gaining other skills gets no notice because they don't have the credentials to show for it, they cannot simply quit their jobs because they cannot afford to be out of a job longer than a week, and now we've created a wage slave who has to accept government assistance to live their life. The more this happens in America, the more taxes and government insurance plans will have to be created to fight poverty. Highly profitable companies are shooting themselves in the foot by not paying people real salaries and intern getting eatin with higher taxes. Its a catch 22.

How is this going to benefit the market and stock market in the future? It's going to stagnate because companies overtime will lose value do to having to increase prices while middle and lower class cannot support those price increases, nor are these middle and lower class people going to be able to invest in the markets to begin with. So instead of taking a healthy hit to preserve growth in the nation and our markets by providing the working class with more to spend, business owners will continue to reap the growth of the prices going up (for now in the Short term) all while taxes soar through the roof, and then everyone will be wondering why the hell it appears we have great growing companies but realistically as a nation we are suffering in the inside. Then all the sudden companies will not grow anymore with higher prices because no one can afford to buy the product.

[ink]

I did not say "take an unfair advantage of them".

no you didn't...I didn't mean to imply you did



 just the words "take advantage" has in itself a bad feeling to me....

if you are paying them for what they are worth...you are not "taking advantage" of them...

[Zoney]

 just the words "take advantage" has in itself a bad feeling to me....

 

I agree completely.  When I typed it out I let it sit there for quite awhile trying to think of another word that would do the job without the negative connotations but with my limited vocabulary, I could not.  Actually let's call it lazy because I could have described the same conditions with a couple of paragraphs most likely.  Part of my thought process included imagining commissioning Michalangelo to do a sculpture.  Something that I could not possibly do at his level.  The act of commissioning said sculpture would  "take advantage" of his prodigious talents.

[ink]

I agree completely.  When I typed it out I let is sit there for quite awhile trying to think of another word that would do the job without the negative connotations but with my limited vocabulary, I could not.  Actually let's call it lazy because I could have described the same conditions with a couple of paragraphs most likely.  Part of my thought process included imagining commissioning Michalangelo to do a sculpture.  Something that I could not possibly do at his level.  The act of commissioning said sculpture would  "take advantage" of his prodigious talents.

 


 

[Zoney]

But this is what is happening.

If a person works full time 8-10 hours a day and has worked for a company for 1-3 years, and they are getting paid 9.50 an hour after a $1 raise. Honestly this is BS and does nothing to benefit anyone. .

If this is true, would you agree that this person has an obligation to quit, therefore reducing the assets available and therefore increasing the market value?

[Zoney]

Ink 

[FLS]

Ah yes, the esoteric Chauncey Gardener School of Economics . . .

It's there we be.

[Zoney]

Violator, I'm enjoying this discussion.

Let's do a thought experiment please.

3 guys absolutely equally qualified apply for one position.  One guy says he will do it for 19 an hour and the other 2 say they will do it for 20 an hour.  The 19 an hour guy is hired.  Whom has determined the value of that job?


3 guys equally qualified apply for 3 positions exactly the same.  One guy says he will do it for 19 an hour and the other 2 say they will do it for 20 an hour.  All are hired at the proposed rate they asked for.  The first day of work while at lunch, they have a discussion and the 19 an hour guy finds out he is being paid less.  Who's fault is is that he is paid less?  Is he legally or morally entitled to demand the extra 1 hour an hour his buddies are getting?

3 guys equally qualified apply for one position.  All of them say they will do it for 20 an hour and they discuss this among themselves and agree not to take less.  The employer declines to hire any of the because he wants to pay 19 and hour and tells them, "I will keep looking for someone who will do it for 19 an hour".  They all go home an tell their wives they did not get the job because it paid 5% less than what they wanted.  One of the guys wife says,"You have been out of work for 6 months.  Get your butt back there right now and take that job for 19 an hour.  Who determined the value of that job?

[Aspen]

I will take stab at it.  In each scenario, the potential employees and the business both determined the value of that job, as it should be.  In scenario #3, the wife affected the husband's determination of the value of the job.  Just like a zillion other outside factors like the price of gas, hours required, ability to afford to keep looking, potential for a better job, future of the industry and the repo guy outside hooking up that new Silverado he can't make payments on.

In scenario #2, the $19/hr guy is welcome to demand the additional dollar.  The employer is welcome to approve or deny that request.  The employee is welcome resign and go the competition if they pay $20/hr, but may stay if the competition only pays $17/hr.

[Rolex]

The best lesson in economics and business is to learn to apply an economy of words.

[Ripsnort]

I think you are making a mistake when you assume education means, "go to college".

Education, experience., talent, vision and drive all have value.  This value is not set by the person that has them, they are set by those who want to use them, to take advantage of them.  Taking advantage of them does not make anyone a bad person, neither the person that has them nor the person that employs someone that has them.

Granted, in our day and age, Zoney, a HS diploma was enough to get a good paying job. Hell, my father had nothing more than a HS diploma when he accelerated in his career to one notch below VP at the now defunct Boyle Midway company (Easy On, Easy Off, Black Flag products, household products)

It's a bit different today. with the influx of highly educated Asians and other immigrants with higher educational standards into our country, those higher paying jobs are going to those who have a 4 year degree or better unless it's a specialty 2 year degree like Welding, Composites, etc.

Auto mechanics (2 year degree) used to be a good living, not anymore for the majority, the avg wage is $38k a year, barely enough to sustain a family of 4.

If you've ever had the chance to read "Strength Finder" it does not differentiate those that go to college and those that do not. When I'm assisting HS students with the recruitment process for collegiate sports I always tell them to pursue the college based on A) The campus. Can you live there for 4 years and finish? B) What you're studying...your degree. Your passion. Are your 'strengths' aligned with the degree you're are pursuing?  and then finally C) Does the college fit your expectations as an athlete?

I've seen too many kids who THINK they're "all that" in athletics get recruited by top colleges only to end up never seeing the field until their senior year in a high scoring game, as a back up.

A HS diploma today gives you minimum wage in most cases, and will give you nothing more financially unless you network (know someone) or you find your strength and expand your education.