Author Topic: Texas sets new record  (Read 967 times)

Offline rpm

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Texas sets new record
« on: September 24, 2015, 04:47:00 AM »
Texas set a new wind generated power record of almost 11,500 MW Sunday night a week ago (9/13), besting a previous record set in February. Because Texas has it's own power grid, and a few other factors, Texas wind energy producers couldn't sell excess production to other power grids and we suddenly had a surplus of power in Texas.

There was so much surplus wind energy the cost of electricity went from $17.49 to -$8.52 per megawatt-hour. They were paying utilities to take it off their hands! Let's hope this trend continues.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/record-wind-generation-pushes-ercot-prices-into-negative-territory/405606/

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_juice/2015/09/texas_electricity_goes_negative_wind_power_was_so_plentiful_one_night_that.html
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Online Meatwad

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2015, 06:29:32 AM »
Thats pretty neat. Im all for wind farms for power generation
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Offline Mickey1992

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2015, 08:26:05 AM »
The reason why they are able to give away wind-generated power is that they are getting a $23 per megawatt-hour tax subsidy from federal taxpayers.  Congress ended the subsidy this year but existing turbines are grandfathered in for 20 years.

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2015, 11:33:58 AM »
We pay,, upfront with subsidies from your taxes or after the fact with the bill,, but we pay either way.
Oh and the energy companies spend massive amounts of money trying to react to the wind energy input, so we aren't in the dark when the wind stops blowing!
And of course there is the price tag to build a wind mill that will never be recovered by it.

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Offline rpm

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2015, 01:35:17 PM »
You mean like the massive milk and grain subsidies the government pays farmers? News flash, they pay lots of businesses subsidies.
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2015, 02:47:17 PM »
You mean like the massive milk and grain subsidies the government pays farmers? News flash, they pay lots of businesses subsidies.
yes,, thus the illusion of cheap groceries !
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Offline mbailey

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2015, 03:12:20 PM »
I actually thought it was pretty cool that Texas is a stand alone power grid
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2015, 03:13:28 PM »
I actually thought it was pretty cool that Texas is a stand alone power grid
yes me too!
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Offline Gman

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 03:26:45 PM »
My cousin is the plant manager for Western Canada here in Alberta for our largest wind farm, Vestas has quite a number of 50 to 75 wind machine farms in the Southern part of the Province, where winds often blow at 30 MPH constantly for weeks on end out of the Rocky Mountains to the West.  I believe his plant is rated at 500 MW total output, so 11,500 is an insane amount of power.  I don't know much about the $/subsidy end of it, especially in the USA, but I do know when one screws up it's a pretty big ordeal, they've had a number of them catch fire there, and it's quite the sight to see, as putting them out isn't really an easy option.

This town in Pincher Creek isn't very big, but will soon have 500+ wind generators running, and be over 1000MW of total output. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 03:29:02 PM by Gman »

Offline Aspen

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 05:49:54 PM »
When I was a kid I dated a dairy farmer's daughter.  I went to pick her up and meet her folks.  My family farmed when I was little and I was a decent enough kid so I wasn't too nervous about meeting her Dad.  Figured we had some common ground to start on. 

Well, turns out he was a pretty protective guy and put me through a pretty thorough interrogation/lay-down-the-law session.  I made it through that and we both relaxed a bit.  Trying to win points, I asked about the farm and why there were quite a few empty pens around the place.  He explained that it was an off year for production in the market due to surplus so they weren't really producing much on the farm and had sent most of the cows to market.  I asked if he was going to have to farm something else or get a job in town.  He explained that the Government was paying him not to produce any milk...

I was a clueless kid but thought that sounded ridiculous.  Sometimes its best to keep your thoughts to yourself...
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Offline helbent

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2015, 03:16:24 PM »
4 million a pop per turbine in the US.  Glad it works, sad for the birds
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Offline NatCigg

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2015, 03:28:19 PM »
When I was a kid I dated a dairy farmer's daughter.  I went to pick her up and meet her folks.  My family farmed when I was little and I was a decent enough kid so I wasn't too nervous about meeting her Dad.  Figured we had some common ground to start on. 

Well, turns out he was a pretty protective guy and put me through a pretty thorough interrogation/lay-down-the-law session.  I made it through that and we both relaxed a bit.  Trying to win points, I asked about the farm and why there were quite a few empty pens around the place.  He explained that it was an off year for production in the market due to surplus so they weren't really producing much on the farm and had sent most of the cows to market.  I asked if he was going to have to farm something else or get a job in town.  He explained that the Government was paying him not to produce any milk...

I was a clueless kid but thought that sounded ridiculous.  Sometimes its best to keep your thoughts to yourself...

Sad economics here, one thing the u.s. can do well is grow food. so much so that the farmers side of the economies would collapse without regulation.  Farmers are a necessity and allowing them to go under because of rock bottom prices is not a option.  Its a big money game on a global scale.  Skyrocketing corn prices are gone with the current abundance of oil and the hard life on the farm will likely cycle around.  Also, Most of the Farm bill goes to feeding people not paying farmers.  :old:

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 03:34:32 PM »
one thing the u.s. can do well is grow food.  Most of the Farm bill goes to feeding people not paying farmers.  :old:
Exactly
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Offline eagl

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2015, 03:50:12 PM »
I read recently that while the wind power generation in TX is great, there is a bit of a problem with power distribution especially when generation exceeds demand.  The problem according to the article was that TX has a mostly isolated grid from the rest of the country.  That means that its less likely for a cascading power failure in neighboring states will take out the TX power grid, but it also means that a lot of renewable energy production in TX can't be made available to customers outside the state.  Not being able to sell excess power will have a stabilizing effect on energy prices, keeping them artificially high.  But that's probably necessary in order to preserve traditional power production that we need to fill in the gaps when natural power sources sag or don't produce enough during peak demand times.  We still need a revolution in power storage, otherwise we'll always be reliant on traditional power sources to fill in when the renewable sources can't keep up.

Personally I'm in favor of pumped water as a great way to put excess power in the bank.  Set up a couple of dual reservoirs with as much of an altitude difference between the two as practical.  When there is excess power, pump the water uphill to the high reservoir.  When power generation isn't keeping up (hot day with no wind for example, or during hot nights when local solar isn't available), run the water back downhill through turbines.  The reservoirs, if located in favorable locations, could provide for natural wildlife preservation and/or recreation which could help justify the expense of creating them, they have fewer drawbacks than some of the other stranger ideas like pumping high pressure air into underground caverns like a big high pressure bottle (fracking probably causes earthquakes, what would this idea do?), and it has the potential to dramatically reduce demand for fossil fuel burning power plants that are currently required for peak load times even in areas with lots of renewable energy sources.


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Offline eagl

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Re: Texas sets new record
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2015, 04:01:33 PM »
I also think a lot of these power projects could be done a lot cheaper if the govt were permitted to compete by providing govt infrastructure construction jobs to anyone out of work and facing expiration of welfare or unemployment benefits.  Use those social welfare dollars for projects that benefit the nation instead of paying people to stay at home.
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