Author Topic: Stories from FL280...  (Read 35529 times)

Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #225 on: February 22, 2017, 11:07:39 AM »
Serenity, have you went supersonic yet?  Just curious, hadn't seen it mentioned in this otherwise very interesting thread.

No, while our jet is CAPABLE of hitting 1.04, the things you need to do to get it there are NOT smart decisions.

Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #226 on: February 22, 2017, 11:51:42 AM »
So, as we've heard, emergencies are no rare occurrence in this jet. That goes doubly so for me as a pilot. In general, it's a bit of a joke. After most emergency situations, I find myself excited to have fought through it, and accomplished. I'm excited to come back and talk about it. After last night, I DON'T want to talk about it. But it occurs to me that the more I want to wall up and not talk, the more I NEED to talk it out like it's just another day at work.

There were two incidents of OBOGS issues/hypoxia here yesterday. One was me. In formation. At night. Solo.

I'd started with a safe-for-solo flight in night formations. It was a great flight, everything went well. I was a little slow to fix an acute on my initial join, but that was the only complaint, and both the lead and my trunk IP had good things to say about the rest of the flight, so I was feeling great and excited to get into my solo later in the night. When the time came for my solo, I walked out to my jet, and things started off on a bad note. We park our jets tail to tail, with a taxiway in between the parking lines. Well, the jet directly behind mine was being worked on by maintenance, and they were running up the engine. The whole freaking time. My entire pre-flight, I was getting blasted in the face by exhaust. It was enough that I could see MY engine spinning (fast) through the intakes due to the exhaust being blown the wrong way down my tailpipe. The whole preflight my eyes and lungs were burning a bit, and it continued as I climbed into the jet. But it's just discomfort from exhaust. I've had that happen before. Not for that duration and power setting, but I can't imagine that is at all uncommon. I got started up and taxid out to the runway as Dash-2.

Dash-1 took off, and then I took my place on the runway. My eyes were still stinging, but I imagined it was just a matter of time before that went away. As I ran the engine up to MRT, I got a blast of water in the face from the vents. (This is significant for two reasons: One, it made my eyes stop burning, but Two, they suspect there is a correlation between water in the ECS system, and contaminated oxygen). I made my takeoff, called "Kilo" and turned to head out to the TACAN Rendezvous point. It was odd, I was flying straight and level, but noticed I was having a hard time maintaining my airspeed. It was slowly walking up and down. I reached point one, and started on the turn to join up. As I was completing my join, it was... rough. I couldn't hit my groove and was meatfisting the hell out of the stick. (It turns out that was just my perspective, in the debrief, the IP said my join looked fine). As I took my position on the outside of the turn, I noticed I was breathing VERY hard. I tried to calm down, and told myself it was just the leftovers of all that exhaust I was breathing. I executed a crossunder, and felt inexplicably on edge. As we went for our night breakup and rendezvous, it fell apart. Now, the night BnR is BENIGN. Lead exectues a smooth roll, and pulls 14 units AOA for 180 degrees of turn. It's MAYBE a 1.5 G maneuver. Lead rolled, and then I did. As I did, I felt like I was tumbling. I was dizzy, I was having a hard time seeing lead (His lights were on bright, he was about 500 feet in front of me, but I was just struggling to focus on him). As I rolled out behind him, I was actively panting. I felt eyes darting around but I wasn't really processing what I was seeing. Before I could think any further, I saw him start his turn, and I decided that the only safe thing to do was try to fight through this until I completed the join. As I moved out to bearing line, I was having a hard time making sense of his lights. Then my surefire hypoxia symptoms set in: Air hunger, and unbridled terror. At this point, I started to accept that maybe I wasn't just feeling crappy from the preflight conditions. This might legitimately be an OBOGS issue. But the last thing I wanted to do was try to action anything mid join. It was hard enough to focus on the join, I just wanted to power through and get aboard. I know, in the sober light of day, that was the wrong thought process. I needed to get on O2 immediately to clear the symptoms. But in the moment, all I felt was suffocation and terror. I just wanted to get back to something familiar. As soon as I completed the join, I fumbled for the green ring. It took a few seconds to find, but I got it, and I tasted the beautiful taste of stale oxygen. I shut my OBOGS flow selector off, and radioed lead:

"Tron 11, Tron 12. I'm experiencing an episode. Green ring has been pulled, flow selector off."
"Tron 12, what? What's going on?"
"Tron 11. Suspect hypoxia. Green ring has been pulled flow selector off".

I was starting to feel better at least. I was still breathing HARD, and I was still scared, but I was starting to be able to focus. I was oscillating pretty badly on his wing, but it was starting to become manageable. He asked me whether I wanted to be detached as a single, change leads so I don't have to keep in formation, or stay on his wing. I didn't want to have to think, I was already struggling to keep calm, and I didn't want to deal with anything different, so I asked to stay on his wing. Forms are comfortable. Forms are safe. He asked if I wanted to be lead into a section straight in, or if I wanted the break. Again, I've only done a handful of section approaches. I've done the break a million times. I asked for the break. Break is comfortable. Break is safe. So he started leading me back.

Lead continued to check up on me throughout the flight, and I was starting to feel better. It was a very short flight home (We weren't more than 30 miles away when I pulled the green ring), but the oxygen was REALLY helping. By the time we hit the initial, I felt almost normal. As we crossed over the approach end numbers, my next breath was a struggle. Another breath. More struggle. The bottle was empty. I told my lead my bottle was empty, but I think he was caught off guard, because his only response as he broke was "What?" I dropped my mask to attempt to breathe, and everything exploded. In my first breath of cockpit air, I felt like I was tumbling again. I was nauseated, and I felt like everything was falling apart. I remember rolling out on downwind, struggling to follow lead. I felt like I was weaving back and forth trying to follow him. It took me multiple tries to get through my landing checklist. I don't recall reporting gear down and locked, but in the debrief, lead said I did. I made the landing, though it's a bit vague in my mind. At some point I realized cabin air was bad, because I shut off my airflow knob to dump pressure and let ram air in. As I rolled out behind lead, I followed him back to parking, trying to get everything cleaned up. It was still a bit blurry, but I got back. When I got to parking, I shut the engine down, and immediately opened the canopy for fresh air. I just sagged forward for a minute. I slowly unstrapped from the jet, and tried to get everything shut down properly, and hauled myself out of the jet. As I was stepping out, I realized I had never safed my ejection seat. (Should have been done leaving the runway). Fortunately, I DID pin it, but I wasn't comfortable with my shutdown, so I asked the PC to check my cockpits for me and make sure everything was okay. Apparently I had also forgotten the data brick, he handed it to me, and told me it was all good.

From there, it was writing up the jet as down, turning my mask and respirator in to be inspected, and filling out more paperwork at the Wind Duty Officer's office. Ironically as I was going through this, I heard another jet calling inbound with oxygen issues as well.

So that was that. This was the first time I really felt shaken after an emergency. I'm still a bit uneasy, but I've got a flight again tonight. Despite the emergency, our flight last night was complete, so we're pressing forward. I really want to get through this next flight, because I think the best thing to shake this feeling is to get back into the cockpit and have a successful flight.

Offline Golfer

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #227 on: February 22, 2017, 12:02:51 PM »
Sounds like you did fine and you've got some good data points for lessons learned.

You'll do fine, BJ.

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #228 on: February 22, 2017, 12:19:38 PM »
How can there be so many problems with this jet? It's basically an Americanized BAE Hawk. It's a 40+ year old design!

That suffocation induced panic attack you had can lead to claustrophobia. You need to defeat that toejam right away or it might stick!
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #229 on: February 22, 2017, 12:24:13 PM »
How can there be so many problems with this jet? It's basically an Americanized BAE Hawk. It's a 40+ year old design!

That suffocation induced panic attack you had can lead to claustrophobia. You need to defeat that toejam right away or it might stick!

Terror is my hypoxia symptom. Whether in the altitude chamber, in the ROBD, or apparently in the jet, when my body stops getting oxygen, that's how it manifests.

The problems with this jet, in my opinion, are two-fold. Oxygen issues in OBOGS jets are a thing throughout the fleet. I won't say more than that.

Additionally, these are all OLD airframes. They're ridden rough and put away wet. I'm actually surprised there aren't more MAJOR issues with these aircraft.

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #230 on: February 22, 2017, 12:32:34 PM »
So it's not just you living up to your new call sign... Good to know.
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Offline Zoney

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #231 on: February 22, 2017, 12:41:45 PM »
Serenity is a chicks name.  And not a hot one like Kanth either, an ugly one.



Just sayin................
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Offline Kanth

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #232 on: February 22, 2017, 12:44:17 PM »
That's probably true but obviously there are problems happening so calling them out and getting yourself safe certainly isn't any points against you.  :noid

I'm pretty sure you are gonna end up SUPER calm in any (further) real emergencies since you're already doing them all now.  :D


because I think the best thing to shake this feeling is to get back into the cockpit and have a successful flight.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 12:46:20 PM by Kanth »
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #233 on: February 22, 2017, 06:11:11 PM »
A build up of carbon dioxide can trigger panic.  Some people are more sensitve to this than others.  Once this happens, the bloodstream is flooded with stress hormones that cause oxygen to bind more tightly to red blood cells, only to be released to large muscles that need it.  This is probably why you felt dizzy.  Your brain was slightly oxygen starved. A trick to get your body to go back to normal is to breathe only through your nose and/or breathe from you diaphragm. 

In a study of people who experienced adverse symptoms due to high CO2 levels, increasing serotin (via administration of 5-htp) eliminated feelings of panic in over 50% of the patients.
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #234 on: February 22, 2017, 06:16:39 PM »
Serenity - You may have been hypoxic even before you left the taxi way. How long were you breathing in the exhaust from the jet behind you? I mean, from the time you approached, did your walk-around, climbed up the ladder. Strapped in, did your flight run up check list, and then taxied away.It would probably have taken 1 minute of clean flight to get rid of all of the exhaust fumes built up in your jet before the air support system of your jet was clean.  You may have been suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #235 on: February 22, 2017, 08:07:06 PM »
Serenity - You may have been hypoxic even before you left the taxi way. How long were you breathing in the exhaust from the jet behind you? I mean, from the time you approached, did your walk-around, climbed up the ladder. Strapped in, did your flight run up check list, and then taxied away.It would probably have taken 1 minute of clean flight to get rid of all of the exhaust fumes built up in your jet before the air support system of your jet was clean.  You may have been suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.

When I went through the timeline at medical, we determined 15 minutes of non-stop fume breathing (had some other issues with the jet which led to being stuck there unusually long).

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #236 on: February 22, 2017, 08:26:56 PM »
Bruh, take it or leave it but...

Dial down the publicity a notch.  No good will ever come of it in this day and age.

Your honesty is admirable but can (and will) be used against you by those willing to shoot their own mother to get ahead.   Take it from one who knows.    :cheers:  :salute

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« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 09:59:11 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #237 on: February 22, 2017, 09:11:04 PM »
When I went through the timeline at medical, we determined 15 minutes of non-stop fume breathing (had some other issues with the jet which led to being stuck there unusually long).

There's nothing wrong with making the call early after such an event, and aborting the mission before you go fly.  As a newbie in fast movers, you are in a vulnerable position every time you go fly.  You must be on your A game all the time, not your B-.  You never know when out of no where, it's going to hit the fan and you'll be the ONLY one to keep you safe.   :salute



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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #238 on: February 22, 2017, 10:22:09 PM »
Bruh, take it or leave it but...

Dial down the publicity a notch.  No good will ever come of it in this day and age.

Your honesty is admirable but can (and will) be used against you by those willing to shoot their own mother to get ahead.   Take it from one who knows.    :cheers:  :salute

*flameproof underwear on*
Don't stress about it bro. You should see the hundreds of other forums with active service members squeaking about their service and much serious matters and most unprofessional.

Serenity - nothing here you've posted is not unknown to all of us aviation enthusiasts. Yer guud Dude. Yer guuud. :salute
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 10:25:03 PM by Mister Fork »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #239 on: February 22, 2017, 10:25:17 PM »
Don't stress about it bro. You should see the hundreds of other forums with active service members squeaking about their service and much serious matters and most unprofessional. Yer guud Serenity. Yer guuud. :salute

Gawd I hope so.

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