need help with twin engine fighters

[Randy1]

Bozon 

Maybe good way to put it.   If fly a twin engine plane, then you need twice the SA as a single engine plane.

[WaffenVW]

Randy, I still didn't use the 190 as an example...

[DmonSlyr]

Randy, I still didn't use the 190 as an example...

Given the point, the P38J is actually a much better plane than the 109G6. The only thing the G6 can do is turn better in a slow speed stall fight. Other than that, the G6 would only have the advantage if it started with the a higher alt. On a straight nose on nose duel, the P38 would more than likely be able to pull off the rope on the merge, however if the fight got slow in a rolling scissors, the G6 would win.

[WaffenVW]

At low alt the 109G-6 is just as fast, climbs better and turns better. The only thing the P-38 has is post stall stability, which is a genuine asset I grant you, but a difficult one to exploit. At high altitude the P-38 is a much better fighter. As I said.

[WaffenVW]

Mediocre means it does everything OK. In the right hands the G-6 can dance with the very best dog fighters. Against a P-38 this fight would have been much shorter and more one-sided.

[DmonSlyr]

At low alt the 109G-6 is just as fast, climbs better and turns better. The only thing the P-38 has is post stall stability, which is a genuine asset I grant you, but a difficult one to exploit. At high altitude the P-38 is a much better fighter. As I said.

Ehh, the P-38 has better acceleration and can typically extend away from the G-6 depending on the distance, especially if there is room to dive. Also, the G6 doesn't climb better in the vertical E climb. The P-38J handles E exuberantly better. So, if you fly the P38j smoothly you can gain an E advantage and possibly pull a loop over the top. If the P-38 gains the E advantage in any part of the fight its pretty much over.

Now the G-14 is a different story with a bit more powerful engine.


Edit: I'll watch that when I'm infront of comp. Cannot view on phone.

[WaffenVW]

No, acceleration and climb rate are two sides of the same coin. Climbing is accelerating in the vertical. Two different planes with the same climb rate tend to have the same low speed acceleration. If they also share a similar top speed their acceleration tend to be similar across the entire speed range.

[WaffenVW]

Those are from Gonzo's excellent site btw.

http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/index.php

[DmonSlyr]

I don't think charts really represent a fight. E retainment has a lot to do with fighting and those charts are standard ratios. The P38 retains E much more quickly and it can climb in the vertical straight up better. Those are very important assets in a fight.

[DmonSlyr]

I'm not knocking the G6 in any way. I fly 109s for a living in AH. I much prefer the G14 for any given scenario. I just believe that the P38 is an overall better fighter than the G6 for a few E related and performance issues, like not having tourque in a right hand spiral climb and the lift the P38 can achieve in a vertical zoom climb. I have 11 yrs experience in a lot of different planes I just know how they feel.

[WaffenVW]

Violator, it's physics, not magic. The 109G-6 and P-38J/L are virtually equal in acceleration, and the 109 climbs better at low alt. The P-38 will accelerate faster in a dive, but that is of limited use at low alt.

[DmonSlyr]

Violator, it's physics, not magic. The 109G-6 and P-38J/L are virtually equal in acceleration, and the 109 climbs better at low alt. The P-38 will accelerate faster in a dive, but that is of limited use at low alt.

No, its a video game. Planes can perform to a certain envelope in AH. With 2 equal pilots the P38J specifically is going to win the majority of the time. Your charts do not gaurantee people's ability to maintain E and the G6 doesn't hold it as well. The P38 uses E better than the G6 and the P38j can loop beyond the G6s range to gain snap shot. Also, the P38 will climb much higher much quicker using spiral climbs above the runway than the g6 will flying at Shift X climb speed. Look I understand that you are making a decent arguement and obviously you are german guy. But you've been here since 2015? According to your profile. I've been in AH since 2005 and have talked c%&t here on the BBs for 8 years. I fly 109s as my main ride and the G14 is my favorite plane in the game.  I don't even know what your ingame name is. But I do know how the planes fly and how to be successful in almost every plane in AH.  And I know which planes should win based on plane performance and which planes won't.

[WaffenVW]

A computer game modeling physics. The P-38 doesn't have any spells it can use to magically out climb a 109G-6 below 20k. I've been playing AH since 2002, mostly in 109s. Every time I take a break I end up with a new handle, but that's irrelevant. I can only say "the 109G-6 will beat the P-38 at low alt" so many times before it becomes repetitive. You obviously have your own opinion and you're sticking to it. That's fine. You're wrong... but that's fine.

[Karnak]

Bf109F and later, and the Ki-84, were the fighters I had the most trouble with in the Mossie VI.  Probably La-7s after that.  Late Spitfires should, by performance numbers, have been as bad or worse than the 109s and 84, but their pilots are usually so bad as to mitigate their advantages.  Generally American and Italian fighters are no better than an even fight.

[bozon]

Performance charts lie. It is as simple as that - read them, enjoy them, then throw them out. They measure performance in a part of the envelope which is rarely relevant. Planes do not fights with full flaps out, nor do they go round in flat circles at the minimum speed possible. If you enter a sustained turn with a twin Fighter, you are doing it wrong.

The practical reality is that the 109G6 is the worst of the 109s except the Emil. Even in the mossie I do not consider it a major threat and will enter a knife fight without hesitation. At speeds above 150 mph the mossie is able to hang on to the G6 and even cut inside it by blowing a lot of E for a one shot opportunity - and given what the mossie spews out of its nose, that is all it takes. I have much less experience with the 38, but by relative comparison I assume it can do the same.