Being Vulched

[Slade]

Guys,

On many occasions I'd rather not climb to 15k+ when inbound to a target.  The downside is becoming a vulch target for those who are at 15k+.

If you are at say 5k and find yourself being vulched what are some common techniques you perform to deal with this?



Thanks for sharing, 

Slade

[puller]

Chop throttle....barrel roll....wait for overshoot...pull trigger...bandit goes poof...rinse and repeat

[Citabria]

its such a burden upping from a field a sector away and climbing to the vulched field for 5 minutes then killing all the low and slow vulchers.

much better to let them kill you repeatedly while you accelerate from the same position from 0mph ever time.

[SPKmes]

That to me isn't vulched... that is a normal fighting start.... For me my goal is to bleed the cons E... this is done with  (usually) many defensive maneuvers which cause the con to strip some E by offering a free meal .... you really have to offer a good shot or they will just pullout and reset early... although you will be on the defensive  (for me) it is an offensive as I am in reality moulding the fight into my way even though the con thinks they are in total control.....Now this doesn't always pay off especially if they are patient... But the key thing is you need to partially equalize E states.... usually with each overshoot there is a chance of a snap shot... and as things slow down these shot openings become longer.

[Ack-Ack]

Guys,

On many occasions I'd rather not climb to 15k+ when inbound to a target.  The downside is becoming a vulch target for those who are at 15k+.

If you are at say 5k and find yourself being vulched what are some common techniques you perform to deal with this?



Thanks for sharing, 

Slade

The only time you can be vulched at 5k is if you're taking off from a 5k base.  Being vulched means that you were shot down as you were either in the process of taking off or landing.  What you described is being bounced by enemy planes.

[Stratocaster]

Being shot down while flying at 5k certainly does not count as a vulch. It is always a risk to fly low, but it really depends on what your teammates are flying around you and what the enemy is flying. I've been swearing by using the speed/climb charts for each plane as of late, and it has helped me immensely in learning each aircraft. By checking these you will see exactly the altitudes in which your airplane performs at its best. Tactics to avoid higher aircraft depend on what they are flying just as much as what you are flying. Some aircraft with lower maximum dive speeds and are prone to compressing such as the 109s should give you ample time to relocate yourself. Planes that dive well (such as the 190) will only retain energy if they exit on the zoom climb. Pay attention to how much E they retain. I've had people dive from an incredible advantage only to pull too hard or overturn to attempt a shot, bleeding all of their energy. I use to be fearful and split-s frequently, but many times you will gain the upper hand by retaining what E you have and waiting for your opponent to level the field.

[Slade]

Sorry for my inappropriate usage of the word vulched.  I'll use Bounced as you suggest.  Fester I'm not sure what you mean.  Maybe you too are responding to my misuse of the term vulch.

The scenario I am looking for feedback on please is:

1. You are in the air and higher than 5k in altitude moving toward an enemy base.
2. An enemy plane is 5k+ above you and dives on you from your 6.
3. What options do you find effective to deal with this?

Thanks.

[puller]

Chop throttle....barrel roll....wait for overshoot...pull trigger...bandit goes poof...rinse and repeat

^^^^^ 

[DmonSlyr]

^^^^^ 

Bingo

[waystin2]

Get out from under, climb up, kill them.

[Slade]

Barrel Rolls are a cool maneuver.  I'd like to communicate something to those that use it as their sole method of dealing with guys on your 6.  Are you ready? I have always been able to detect one performing one nearly instantly and move to counter it.  In this, I have not been shot down once from someone using this technique on me.  Not in years anyway.

On the other side, Barrel Rollers nearly always survive my bounce attempt on them. Kudos to them. 

I notice some are one trick ponies at dealing with being bounced (me included thus this post!).  For me it has been a Split-S.  Others, like Joker, usually live but I have only seen him use one move to counter me.  As I detect him doing his one counter trick I adjust and try to have led waiting at his counter vector.  I'm getting better at it. Hint: learn something new dude. 

Greebo too does a Semi Split-S Feign then has led waiting as you miss!  BTW that is Jokers move but Greebo is better at it and has more moves.

[DmonSlyr]

Barrel Rolls are a cool maneuver.  I'd like to communicate something to those that use it as their sole method of dealing with guys on your 6.  Are you ready? I have always been able to detect one performing one nearly instantly and move to counter it.  In this, I have not been shot down once from someone using this technique on me.  Not in years anyway.

On the other side, Barrel Rollers nearly always survive my bounce attempt on them. Kudos to them. 

I notice some are one trick ponies at dealing with being bounced (me included thus this post!).  For me it has been a Split-S.  Others, like Joker, usually live but I have only seen him use one move to counter me.  As I detect him doing his one counter trick I adjust and try to have led waiting at his counter vector.  I'm getting better at it. Hint: learn something new dude. ;-)

Greebo too does a Semi Split-S Feign then has led waiting as you miss!  BTW that is Jokers move but Greebo is better at it and has more moves.

There are only a few options you have when you are low and slow on the deck after take off. Stick stir, scissors for overshoot and attempt to BRD, or a nose down rudder kick if they are really close. . Other than that, you really are in a tight spot and the enemy plane attacking you should just pull up and come back around. Most people fall right into the trap though.

If you are 3K or higher there a couple of other manuevers, nose down rudder kick with a snap roll usually gets them to miss while saving your E. You can do a nose nose down extended barrel roll to get them to follow, then cut throttle, deply flaps, and roll over them, while they desperatly try to stay on your 6 after gaining more speed following you down. If they are coming straight down on you, pull up into a loop and roll over them. If you think they are going to shoot you in your defensive attempt, roll ailerons right and left, normally makes it hard to shoot.

I fly 109s very well in the defensive and one thing I've learned is that A. Most people are terrible at aiming when you roll your ailerons. B. If you can get them to black out or lead shoot you, nose down and rudder kick in the opposite direction and they won't even know where you went.

[SPKmes]

Sometimes doing repetitive moves is the way to go... this is usually because the attacker is doing the same thing over and over too...this is where SA comes in...knowing when to change it up.... many times I will rinse and repeat until the one moment that the attacker tries something different.... most times it is because of the repetitive maneuvers that this happens and it is what I am waiting for.... the attacker thinks he has a bead on you this time and sticks to the attack just that little bit longer and at a slightly different angle and  boom you have the opportunity to inflict enough damage to change the fight... or if you are lucky enough get an out right kill.
Now if you have a patient attacker then this may not happen... but 9 out 10 people gett too excited about another pelt... especially when there is two three contending for the same one

[waystin2]

Sometimes doing repetitive moves is the way to go... this is usually because the attacker is doing the same thing over and over too...this is where SA comes in...knowing when to change it up.... many times I will rinse and repeat until the one moment that the attacker tries something different.... most times it is because of the repetitive maneuvers that this happens and it is what I am waiting for.... the attacker thinks he has a bead on you this time and sticks to the attack just that little bit longer and at a slightly different angle and  boom you have the opportunity to inflict enough damage to change the fight... or if you are lucky enough get an out right kill.
Now if you have a patient attacker then this may not happen... but 9 out 10 people gett too excited about another pelt... especially when there is two three contending for the same one

This is actually a great point and works in the reverse as well.  If the attacking con sees you making a repetitive dodge to their attempted bounce it gets a little easier to find a shot solution each time they see you perform your move. If they are smart they adjust based on your reactions to their bounce.

[Randy1]

A long turn flat, slight nose up or down depending on your speed but speed is important to get a good rate.  If the red has good throttle control, this move is more problematic.  Even with good throttle control the red has reduced his E to a point that other greens will jump them and he will pay the price.

262s and other high speed divers are the most susceptible and they are the easiest to roll around and get hits if they throttle back.