Buff Defensive Lethality

[Crash Orange]

Don't forget that AH is modeling a formation that had 21 guys manning those guns (not counting the radiomen since that gun isn't included in the game). The game lets the pilot man them all because otherwise it would be a formation with 30 guns unmanned at any given time which would be that much less realistic. You're never going to get enough gunners to even half fill one plane, much less 3, because most players enjoy piloting a lot more than gunning. And because of parallax, unless the fighter is straight and level dead on the buffs' 6 at close to the same speed, all those guns manned by one person from one position are less effective than they'd be if there were 21 gunners.

[save]

Why can a buff .50 caliber from a ventral gun of a b17 hit you at 1.5k out frm the side (and even cripple you)  when your same .50 cal can't reach  them ????

[bozon]

Bombers are full of gameplay concessions that I have come to live with. AH is a game after all and real life bombers sucked really bad.

The biggest dweebery multiplier is the 3 plane formation. With the laser guided bombing accuracy, the drones are not needed in order to improve carpet-bombing statistics. They are there for defence and to give the player, often a noob, 3 strikes in order to reduce his frustration. However, the increased payload per player and 36 synchronized guns allow a ton of stupid uses for bombers - because drones are free and totally expendable to the player. He only needs to land 1 to get "successful landing" and his name in lights in the text buffer.

90% of the dweebery can be prevented or significantly reduced in effectiveness if the two drones were lightly perked (lead bomber for free). Bomb and bail, ack-stars, suicide CV attackers, lancstukas - all would be a costly endeavor if the player does them as a habit with drones. At the same time, bomber perks are cheap and easy to harvest, you get them back if you protect your drones and land, and even if one runs out of perks he can still roll single bombers (gasp ) like we did for many years in AH and the 'other games'. Even a noob in non-dweeb activity should be able to afford a 1 perk-per-drone running cost.

PERK THE DRONES ALREADY!

[zack1234]

When was the last time you saw a bomber mission?

[Lusche]

Why can a buff .50 caliber from a ventral gun of a b17 hit you at 1.5k out frm the side (and even cripple you)  when your same .50 cal can't reach  them ????

Some factors onfluencing gunnery ranges:

1.
"1.5k" ain't exactly 1.5k. It's a range from 1250 to 1750 yards. The former can be (depending on circumstances, see following points) just within range, the latter one is not. So at one time you can get hit at 1.5k, while the other time you can't hit your enemy at what seems to be the same range by icon distance shown

2.
Due to lag, the distances two players are apart on their respective screens can be remarkably different. (And especially at close ranges, the angles can & will be too, which has an effect on which cuns can actualkly shoot at you).

3.
Movement vector of the involved parties
The subjective range can be varying depending on if you are shooting at an enemy flying away from your bullets or flying towards them. (Trying to find the threads where HT posted on this thing)

4.
Different kind of '0.50cals'?
Sometimes players in German planes refer to their 13mm guns as '0.50cals', but in fact those were less powerful round sin RL. I had never tested if this actually translated into a shorter range in AH, but it should do so.

[save]

Maybe someone can tell me if you can inflict  damage with US .50 cal with a figter at 1.5k range icon (no closure), I never managed to do that myself.

The very few times I fly bombers I had no problem smoking an engine of a fighter at 1k range with 7.7mm in a Ju88, trying that with a 7.7mm fighter would be futile against any target.

[save]

Whenever ET37 is on 

When was the last time you saw a bomber mission?

[Lusche]

Go offline or TA, and use the .target command to find out how the max distances differ depending on which direction you are shooting to relative to your movement vector. You will find some significant differences.

What I forgot to mention: Altitude is also a factor.

[Tumor]

  Why do we pander to this videogamey style of exploit? 

Because AH is a videogamey ~game~, played by gamers.  It's a game, it's a game, it's a game.  Those simulation enthusiasts among us who realize this, end up having much more "fun" in AH, uhm... or leave. 

[Xtrepid]

There are many who see it as a video game, I for one do it for the close reality and the attempt to feel 1/1000th of what it was like in war time to be in a ww2 aircraft pitting your skills to stay alive and defend the world as we cherish it. 

It is a video game... not even close to any fraction of reality in the MA's (Exceptions may be the shapes of the planes and vehicles).

The only thing you sacrifice is time and money.

This is my opinion, and nothing more... enough said.


X 

[Wizz]

You should try it and fly them regularly for a while. I guarantee you some of your assumptions, opinions and conclusions will change after that. For example you'd know that you can easily lose your guns...

 

Always a voice of reason

[Zoney]

I see a lot of complaints using the word 'difficult" when describing attacking buffs.  Yes, it is, when you have no patience or are just plain doing it wrong.  I know, you said you didn't want someone to tell you that you are doing it wrong, that does not make it untrue.

It is my goal when attacking buffs to kill all 3 of them without taking a ping.  I enjoy flying hours long missions with multiple re-arms, especially when I am defending a heavily attacked strat area.  50% of the time I can make this happen, no pings, therefore no damage and good to re-arm.  I'm not better than anyone here but I am much more patient.  I also have a lot of practice.  Combine patience with practice and you get a lethal combination that only a few elite buff guys can survive.

This subject comes up from time to time and it is always a fairly new guy, or at least an unpracticed buff killer that suggests it.  Seasoned buff killers do not have this complaint and once you become a proficient buff killer I don't think you will want anything changed because then it would simply be too easy.

Once again, I attack from the High 1:00 or high 11:00, looking out the side window until the buff is about to pass in front of my guns.  Line it up early so you are absolutely neutral stick so your cannons or mg's are sending out a dense stream of lead for them to fly through.  Aim for the wing root or an engine.  For very high buffs, (above 26,000), I make my first pass on the engine of the lead.  If that is smoking after my pass, I leave that one alone because when that engine fails, his entire formation must slow down.  Yes, it takes awhile for that engine to quit but it also takes awhile to get back in position in your fighter at high alts for your next pass.  There is that patience thingy again........

Also, some days are better than other days.  You just have to go with the flow, realize you can't be perfect often, and keep hammering away, patiently.

I have but one wish on this subject, allow a buff pilot to choose between a formation, or the ability to fully man the guns with real players without a formation.  Ok maybe one more wish.....a message that says "XXXXXX has bailed all 3 of his Lancaster's.  (OK, OK, maybe not)

[DubiousKB]

...Forgive the ignorant here...

But would it be possible to say only have the gunner position that is occupied (plus either drone's identical position) firing in a 1:1 ratio, with all remaining "non-manned" guns firing every fifth round?

*In chin gun, all chin guns fire as user fires.  All remaining guns within field of view arc, fire every 5th round*

This might reduce the lazer-beam affect, but still go so far as telling a bomber pilot, "You're f-ed, that brewster will kill you at 20k..."


just a bit of whimsy to be refuted/corrected... 

[Wizz]

I see a lot of complaints using the word 'difficult" when describing attacking buffs.  Yes, it is, when you have no patience or are just plain doing it wrong.  I know, you said you didn't want someone to tell you that you are doing it wrong, that does not make it untrue.

It is my goal when attacking buffs to kill all 3 of them without taking a ping.  I enjoy flying hours long missions with multiple re-arms, especially when I am defending a heavily attacked strat area.  50% of the time I can make this happen, no pings, therefore no damage and good to re-arm.  I'm not better than anyone here but I am much more patient.  I also have a lot of practice.  Combine patience with practice and you get a lethal combination that only a few elite buff guys can survive.

This subject comes up from time to time and it is always a fairly new guy, or at least an unpracticed buff killer that suggests it.  Seasoned buff killers do not have this complaint and once you become a proficient buff killer I don't think you will want anything changed because then it would simply be too easy.

Once again, I attack from the High 1:00 or high 11:00, looking out the side window until the buff is about to pass in front of my guns.  Line it up early so you are absolutely neutral stick so your cannons or mg's are sending out a dense stream of lead for them to fly through.  Aim for the wing root or an engine.  For very high buffs, (above 26,000), I make my first pass on the engine of the lead.  If that is smoking after my pass, I leave that one alone because when that engine fails, his entire formation must slow down.  Yes, it takes awhile for that engine to quit but it also takes awhile to get back in position in your fighter at high alts for your next pass.  There is that patience thingy again........

Also, some days are better than other days.  You just have to go with the flow, realize you can't be perfect often, and keep hammering away, patiently.

I have but one wish on this subject, allow a buff pilot to choose between a formation, or the ability to fully man the guns with real players without a formation.  Ok maybe one more wish.....a message that says "XXXXXX has bailed all 3 of his Lancaster's.  (OK, OK, maybe not)

Pilots like this push the envelope and make these types of engagements incredible. When im dialed in it makes for a great fight. When I am not I stand no chance against Zoney, snail, wiley, and the other greats!

Only 29's are OP that is why they are perked. Scary what a set of 29's can do in the right hands 

[LilMak]

Bombers are generally pretty easy to take down when you set yourself up correctly. Last I checked, my record vs bombers was somewhere near 30:1. While I occasionally think the bomber guns are rediculously accurate and much more effective than those on the fighters, I also don't think they need to be messed with. Buffs would become extinct in the MA if you nerfed them and I don't want to see that.