VMC

[earl1937]

  Recently, I have seen a 262 and a B-26 both crash on short final, both of which were operating on one engine, due to either flack or enemy gunfire! In both cases, the aircraft rolled over on their back and crashed, the player losing what ever damage points, and or kills recorded!
I realize that it wouldn't be practical to print the POH each aircraft in this game, but it would be very useful to know what the VMC is for each twin engine aircraft in the game. I realize a lot of things go into the computation of VMC for an aircraft, but I would suggest it be based on the following: Weight at 25% fuel, 59 degrees temperature, at sea level and 29.98 pressure!
The VMC should be included in the "E6B" on board the aircraft, when the player elects to display the E6B. I have done a few experiments flying different aircraft in here, in the "off line arena" just to satisfy myself where the safe operating minimum air speeds were on single engine operation! Below are some of speeds, if anyone is interest, that I use!
B-29, on two engines out on one side----130 IAS at 25% fuel and no bombs!
P-38L or J, on one engine, 105 IAS, nor ords and 25% fuel
B-25C or H-- 110 IAS
B-26B--- 110 IAS
C-47--- 95 IAS
If you are interested in testing for yourself, I would suggest the following procedure!
Climb out to 10,000 feet AGL, "cage" one engine, start a climb at full power on one engine and gradually increase the climb angle until you can no longer hold a constant heading with full rudder, and observe at what airspeed the aircraft started turning, which you can't stop with rudder and aileron and use that IAS as your VMC! When the aircraft "breaks", or stalls and you lose control, cut the operating engine to fully closed and lower the nose, then you will regain flying speed and control of the aircraft.
I realize there are a lot of people flying in here, who could care less what that value of VMC is, but if you lose a "perk" bird, and or kills and damage points because you didn't care what VMC was, then you will wish you knew what the minimum control airspeed is for single engine operation for that aircraft you are flying!

[DaveBB]

The Mosquito is the worst to fly on one engine.  There is so much yaw from the powerful engines that it overpowers the rudder.  I was taking off from a base and friendly ground fire destroyed one of my engines.  The plane immediately went into a spin.  I believe I was climbing manually, not using auto-climb. 

The B-25 is underpowered with two engines, lose one engine and its hard to even maintain altitude.  But it has excellent rudder authority and not too much adverse yaw (again, probably due to the underpowered engines).  I have attacked tanks in the B-25H on one engine, the stall horn blaring the whole time as I climbed and turned for another attack.  Don't believe I've ever spun one in.

[Zimme83]

Shouldnt people learn to land an undamaged aircraft first? 

[Zacherof]

I'd be interested in knowing this. I've done it plenty of times in the 262

[earl1937]

Shouldnt people learn to land an undamaged aircraft first? 

Yes, you are correct and there are plenty of people around to help anyone learn how to land correctly with both or all engines running!
While I am not a member of the training corp in this game, I would be more than glad to help anyone, should they ask for my help! I am constantly amazed at how many "old" heads I see in this game having a hard time landing safely!

[earl1937]

The Mosquito is the worst to fly on one engine.  There is so much yaw from the powerful engines that it overpowers the rudder.  I was taking off from a base and friendly ground fire destroyed one of my engines.  The plane immediately went into a spin.  I believe I was climbing manually, not using auto-climb. 

The B-25 is underpowered with two engines, lose one engine and its hard to even maintain altitude.  But it has excellent rudder authority and not too much adverse yaw (again, probably due to the underpowered engines).  I have attacked tanks in the B-25H on one engine, the stall horn blaring the whole time as I climbed and turned for another attack.  Don't believe I've ever spun one in.

The B-25's in here, with 25% fuel and no bombs, will maintain a 350 FPM rate of climb up to about 9 thousand, on one engine, so maybe you are carrying to much fuel and or bombs when maneuvering the 25!
You are correct about the "Mossy", it is a handful, even for an experienced pilot! I have often suspected that they sacrificed speed for handling when designing the tail of the "Mossy"!

[FLS]

I have often suspected that they sacrificed speed for handling when designing the tail of the "Mossy"!

Nice post Earl but I suspect you meant to write sacrificed handling for speed.   

[earl1937]

I'd be interested in knowing this. I've done it plenty of times in the 262

Just follow my suggestion about learning where the VMC is for the "Duce", but be careful about "spinning" it when testing though, just do it in the "off line arena" and if it crashes because you can't recover it, you won't lose any perks.
I did not test the 262 in my tests, but I intend to this afternoon and I will publish the results in this forum!
I would suggest that before you do that, learn how to "slow" fly the "beast" as slow as you can, maintaining a constant heading and altitude! Once you master that, maintaining control on one engine will be no big thing for you! Practice the slow flying both with clean config, and with gear and flaps down
I realize this is not a "training school" for pilots, but the game would be more enjoyable if people took the time to learn how to operate the aircraft in here in a proper manner!
I saw something interesting a few nights ago! A player, whom I will not name, was flying a SBD and had gotten in a turn fight with a "Spit" at very low altitude. As they were turning, the SBD pilot was "riding" the top rudder, trying to get a firing solution on the Spit, and it "snap rolled" high wing first and crashed into the ocean! I PM'd him and ask if he knew what happened and he shot back, something was wrong with his computer he guessed! I proceeded to the training arena with him and spent one hour with him and he now has a better understanding of why not to ride the right rudder in a left turn at low altitude's.
IF ANYONE READING THIS WOULD LIKE FOR ME TO WORK WITH YOU ON CONTROL IN SLOW FLIGHT, YOU CAN SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE IN HERE AND I WILL MEET WITH YOU IN THE TRAINING ARENA AND HELP YOU!

[bozon]

The Mosquito is the worst to fly on one engine.  There is so much yaw from the powerful engines that it overpowers the rudder.  I was taking off from a base and friendly ground fire destroyed one of my engines.  The plane immediately went into a spin.  I believe I was climbing manually, not using auto-climb.

In the mossie there is a big difference between right and left engine. Flying on left (#1, port) engine is much easier because the yaw from the asymmetry offsets the yaw of the engine. Flying on right (#2, starboard) engine, both effects add up. If you are flying on one engine and cannot stop the yaw, chopp throttle - the windmilling prop will create huge drag relative to the feathered prop and tend to reverse the yaw. This gives you a short moment to lower the nose and increase speed.

In the twins, on one engine I just come with power off, put it down gliding at a slightly higher speed than usual, and be ready with the differential breaks to keep it straight on the runway.

[earl1937]

Nice post Earl but I suspect you meant to write sacrificed handling for speed.   

Yep, you are correct, sorry bout that guys, that's what happens when you are in a hurry!

[earl1937]

In the mossie there is a big difference between right and left engine. Flying on left (#1, port) engine is much easier because the yaw from the asymmetry offsets the yaw of the engine. Flying on right (#2, starboard) engine, both effects add up. If you are flying on one engine and cannot stop the yaw, chopp throttle - the windmilling prop will create huge drag relative to the feathered prop and tend to reverse the yaw. This gives you a short moment to lower the nose and increase speed.

In the twins, on one engine I just come with power off, put it down gliding at a slightly higher speed than usual, and be ready with the differential breaks to keep it straight on the runway.

Good reply, but I would point out that any aircraft with two engines, the aircraft handles better on one of the engines as opposed to the other! It depends on which way the engine prop is turning! Piper aircraft company along with others, found that if they reversed the prop rotation in opposing directions, it made the aircraft easier to control in certain situations! Either way, if you lose an engine right after lift off and do not have VMC speed or above, you are in a world of hurt! I don't think there is any danger in this game of losing an engine on takeoff, but the problem comes with battle damage to one and you have to operate on one engine to get it home. (More on this subject in another post later)
Another trick, especially if you should have to climb in a single engine confg, is to "cock" the wing which has the good engine running "up" about 5 degrees, it will produce about a 100 feet per minute better climb rate!

[earl1937]

Just follow my suggestion about learning where the VMC is for the "Duce", but be careful about "spinning" it when testing though, just do it in the "off line arena" and if it crashes because you can't recover it, you won't lose any perks.
I did not test the 262 in my tests, but I intend to this afternoon and I will publish the results in this forum!
I would suggest that before you do that, learn how to "slow" fly the "beast" as slow as you can, maintaining a constant heading and altitude! Once you master that, maintaining control on one engine will be no big thing for you! Practice the slow flying both with clean config, and with gear and flaps down
I realize this is not a "training school" for pilots, but the game would be more enjoyable if people took the time to learn how to operate the aircraft in here in a proper manner!
I saw something interesting a few nights ago! A player, whom I will not name, was flying a SBD and had gotten in a turn fight with a "Spit" at very low altitude. As they were turning, the SBD pilot was "riding" the top rudder, trying to get a firing solution on the Spit, and it "snap rolled" high wing first and crashed into the ocean! I PM'd him and ask if he knew what happened and he shot back, something was wrong with his computer he guessed! I proceeded to the training arena with him and spent one hour with him and he now has a better understanding of why not to ride the right rudder in a left turn at low altitude's.
IF ANYONE READING THIS WOULD LIKE FOR ME TO WORK WITH YOU ON CONTROL IN SLOW FLIGHT, YOU CAN SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE IN HERE AND I WILL MEET WITH YOU IN THE TRAINING ARENA AND HELP YOU!

I just ran a quick test on the 262! Of course neither engine is considered the critical engine, as they are jet engines! I could fly the aircraft at 105IAS and maintain altitude and heading, on one engine, but anything below that resulted in a stall! I would say that 110 MPH IAS should be considered VMC just be on the safe sided. BTW, this 262 "spins" great and is easily recovered!

[morfiend]

Earl,fyi  DH knew there was an issue with the mossie!  They told pilots to be careful and easy on rudder because of it.

  The problem was resolved with the hornet,they put a filet infront of the stab,much like you see on the later 47's and 51's.

  It would have required DH to shut down production to do the changes to the mossie and that just wasnt acceptable.

  I always thought they could have simply placed a metal filet after the fact but that's from a 20/20 hindsight type thing.


     

[pembquist]

vmc hasn't been an issue for me yet I think I'm usually too fast on final, but what does get me is when I don't notice the loss of one landing gear strut. The worst is when you stretch the glide for several minutes making it to the field and then while performing a perfect flare to no bounce touch down you suddenly find yourself tipping over and skating off into the weeds.

[MiloMorai]

One engine (real life).

Min approach speed in the Me262 is 260kph (162mph).

For the Mossie, with flaps and u/c up, min speed is 140-150kts, when maneuvering. Depending on weight, touchdown is 110-115kts with no flaps.