CraterMA

[Greebo]

I'm going to visit every airfield and take an axe to the trees at the end of each runway. It should be just a question of changing a small spot of terrain to another type and then refreshing the tree display in the TE.

[FLS]

I took off in a fully loaded P-47 and also tried auto takeoff. No problems.  I like the trees. If you can clear the building you'll probably miss the trees too.   

[Hajo]

I'm going to visit every airfield and take an axe to the trees at the end of each runway. It should be just a question of changing a small spot of terrain to another type and then refreshing the tree display in the TE.

Thanks Greebo.  It is a gorgeous map.

[Wizzy]

6. Revised the field layout in tank town. This was necessary since AH III has a new restriction on how fields can be spaced. Also I didn't like the way players were climbing the canyon walls to overlook everyone so I have bordered the fighting area with water this time.

Oh.... Hell No.... where is the fun in fighting in TT where their "Isn't A Town" to hide in or climb a mountain and shoot down on the "long rangers" in their "perk tanks."     Greebo... I luv ya man but this isn't gonna work... AT ALL! The purpose of climbing the mountains is to brake up the squatters in their Perk Tanks setting way back off the line that don't want to engage in a fight and rack up their kills and then "RUN" back to base cause someone hit them and now their smoking, screaming they need sups cause their in a Tiger II with 30 kills!!!!! That is why I take the 8-10 min to climb the mountains and do my best in killing them "long rangers" as fast as I can. I don't want to hear them whinning cause I'm up their, they can kill me just as well as I can kill them, they also call in "bomb  tards" to do their dirty work for them, so I don't want to hear them whinning about me taking my time to climb the mountains and killing them.

This is enough to make one want to leave the game forever... change is good, I understand that, but to take away the best parts of a map is over doing it if you ask me. When you cater to the whinner's because their to lazy to do what the other players are willing to do, that is really SAD!!! I'm "NOT" saying "YOU" are catering to the whinners but it sure looks that way with the changes to the CraterMA map. During the European war that is what the enemy did, hide in town's, climbed hill side and "ambush" its enemy... you can't do that now on the CraterMA map as it is now.

All the bells and whistle look great, but the towns I see don't look nothing like they are in real life, I spent three years in Germany in the the early sixties and HT almost had it right before they changed the towns to what they are now on the CraterMA and ND lsles maps. I know I'll be getting a lot of flack from this post, but like it or not, if you check the next time either of these two maps come up, you'll find a lot of GV'er in and around TT and someone is trying to hurry up and win the map so the GV'ers will go back to flying planes and not in TT. I guess I better enjoy Aces High as it is now, where is the fun of having a TT when their isn't a town to fight in or mountain to climb.

Nuff... said!

[bustr]

Dang Greebo,

And here I put in spawns on higher elevations over looking the tank gunnery ranges so guys could learn how to range from higher up. The new terrain tiles of trees and clutter will create a different spawn camping style. If the spawn random area drops you into trees, the camper and you will be equally blind. And bomb tards will go blind trying to find tanks as long as they stay under trees. Hmmmm, just like ww2.

When we first tested the new TT object a year ago, we couldn't find the tanks to jabo that were hiding in the trees. I had to bring out an IL2 and fly just above the grass between the trees to spot the tanks. And that was the only way to shoot them, which is highly ineffective trying to destroy most tanks with the 37mm in the side.

I suspect a storch will have to tag the hidden tanks with orange smoke while medium bombers carpet the trees for a single hidden tank. That's how I finally killed stampf's panther hidden in a small group of trees. Brought back a box of lancs and carpeted the grove with 14 1000lb to get him.

As for the villages and towns, over the last 14 years, someone logs a complaint over not agreeing with Hitech's choice of buildings, look of terrains or simply anything and threatens to hold their breath and quit. The door has a big dent in it from the number of player tushy's that didn't get out of the game fast enough while turning blue holding their breath over some tiny niggling something Hitech wouldn't personally change for them........

Hey that big open space buffer from all three sides you have to travers to get onto the TT object may put players off in actual use. They won't want to expose themselves for that long of a drive to snipers hiding in the tree line, or up on the built in high spots on the TT object. That may contribute to figuring out how to get past the flack bases with carpet bombers. Possibly decrease the open space buffer by half with trees, even a few all the way to the TT object. Kind of like how no one GV assaults that central air base on the Fester map with the three GV bases around it because there is no place to use as cover while sneaking up on it. The original TT on CraterMA had the open space factory town but the ability to quickly find some cover after spawning. That appealed to a whole group of very aggressive GVers who would constantly try to assault the front lines and get in the back field to back shoot the spawn campers.

[715]

So... you guys are saying you want to sit on top of mountains, where tanks in the valley cannot hit you because their guns can't elevate that high, and just pick them off?  In other words, you want to literally shoot fish in a barrel?

[bustr]

So... you guys are saying you want to sit on top of mountains, where tanks in the valley cannot hit you because their guns can't elevate that high, and just pick them off?  In other words, you want to literally shoot fish in a barrel?

Hate to admit it but, it was fun sitting on the high ground rim in the trees over looking the bowel the factory was in and sniping long distance. Aces High GVers are not much into real armored assaults against each other. For one, they all play lone wolf and secondly, don't want to really expose themselves. It's by coincidence they look like an armored assault group waiting for the go signal. Really they are all hiding behind the same trees together to protect their kesters.

Aces High GVing is a game of very cautious and painfully slow chicken. That's why bombs were invented in WW1 and perfected by WW2.  They just didn't know it at the time with all that testing on buildings and sub pens and other really tough structures. It was all to make sure tanks could be blown to heck with one bomb........

[Greebo]

The changes I have made to AH III CraterMA are not down to any player whining. The only way I have catered to whiners is in not getting rid of TT altogether, which is what I would do if it wasn't for all the angst it would generate from GVers.

The purpose of the mountains in the current CraterMA tank town was not to allow players to perch on top of them and shoot down at other tanks, I thought I had made them too steep for that. Partly they were there to create a limited area for GVs to fight in, to concentrate the action.

The other reason is down to a quirk of the AH II clutter generating system that I took advantage of. This is that if a one mile square on the map has even one tiny patch of water within it or bordering it, then there will be no trees and bushes etc placed in that square by the game. I used this to create large clutter-free areas in TT for long range shooting. Now the problem in doing this concerns water and GVs in AH II. If a player turns off all the graphics options in the game he is going to lose the ability to see coastlines, could run into water he cannot see and get stuck there. So what I did was place a tiny patches of water at the top of mountains where I thought GVs would not go. As this quirk no longer exists in AH III so the need for mountains has gone. Also since coastlines are visible for all players I can now use water to border the area safely.

Spawn camping is gamey and the main reason I have never been tempted into GVs. However driving up those cliffs seems just as gamey to me as I have a hard time believing a real tank could do that. I cannot stop people spawn camping but I have given each side three spawns positioned close together so anyone camping is always at risk of attack from another spawn. There is also a lot more cover now in the TT area, so the sort of long range sniping that went on before is less likely to happen. This cover is not just trees but small villages too. AH III has a village texture so a map designer can put some buildings wherever he wants.

I may make other changes to TT. When the supply routes are introduced to the beta I may make use of roads and rivers there. Also its possible an MA-allowable bridge may be on its way. If this turns out to be so I may place a river with bridges between each base and TT to create extra choke points.

[hitech]

Btw Greebo, wondering if you tried the tank town object in CraterMA?

HiTech

[Greebo]

Yes there is a TT object in the middle of all the SPs. Lots of interesting terrain there, villages, roads , bridges, hills and so on.

[715]

Greebo: I'm surprised that someone who doesn't like GV'ing made such a successful tank town.   The secret to stopping spawn camping is what you already did with CraterMA: multiple spawns, including one further back, plus having a base close enough to drive to the action.  I'd say that 75% of my time in TT I get there by driving from the base.  (I then set up an ambush and pick off enemy tanks at point blank range advancing towards our rear spawn, at least until a guy on the top of the mountain kills me.)

However, if I had a nickel for every time someone whined that "they're camping our spawn!!!" without noticing that the forward spawns actually overlap the enemy forward spawns, I'd be a billionaire.

[Greebo]

I changed the SP layout a bit this time with one forward and two rear SPs, but the principal is the same.

[Wizzy]

So... you guys are saying you want to sit on top of mountains, where tanks in the valley cannot hit you because their guns can't elevate that high, and just pick them off?  In other words, you want to literally shoot fish in a barrel?

WHAT... can't kill tanks on a mountain... what are the berm's for then if not to pull up on and killing them, I've done it a bunch of time and so have others. Whats the difference with someone setting way off in the distance using a Tiger II, Jagdpanther, or a Panther G with zoom and picking others off, its less of a challenge than shooting down from a mountain I can tell you that. For those who haven't done it, give it a try, it want take long to see its more of a challenge than doing long ranging in a perk tank. I thought it was an added perk to climb a mountain, dodge bomb tards, tanks shooting up at you and then rtb with just a few kill if your lucky. Got to remember, you can't always get sups up their like you can on the lower field. Starting with 40-60 rounds and only getting a few kills is a challenge if you can make it home.

But back to the AH III Beta map, sure I haven't given it much of a chance, so far I haven't found may others in their when I go their. I was expecting to see a big town with places to hide and maybe a mountain or two to climb. I've only been playing a little over two years and don't have the perks to get a Tiger II, Jagdpanther, or a Panther G when even I want. I guess I need to get a Fi, fly around and see whats down their. I do like the rolling hills, surrounding landscape, and lush trees, I just wish you'd put a town in the middle of the three spawns.  <S>

[Greebo]

I have put the tank town object in the middle of TT as it is the one that is designed for the job. All the other objects like the bases, strats or the airfield town have flak guns and that would not be fair to whichever two countries don't own it.

I don't think long range snipers like are going to have as much joy in the new TT as the old as there are not many large clutter-free areas for them to use. Though it is possible to reach the edges of the central TT area using a manned 88 mm from one of the flak bases. That might come as an unpleasant surprise to someone trying to sneak around the coast.

BTW the outer crater bases have a cliff running next to them, so there may be an opportunity for some mountaineering there if your central base gets captured. I also added a spawn from the outer base to an airbase outside the crater, which makes those bases a bit more valuable strategically.

[Wizzy]

I tried manning a 88 just a bit ago, around 1:30pm est from the airfield on the bis side and it wouldn't let me, I could get a 37mm but that was all and can you do something about the "yellow tinted" windows in the tower, looks really weird to me, or could that be something to do with my video setting? I did some driving around, it is going to be a challenging map for sure.

I didn't notice any town in the center of the map when I upped a Fi, but I wasn't looking for one either, I may have over looked it when I was flying around, I'll take another look later this afternoon and see how it looks. Would you consider putting the "original" town in the center just to see how it would play out, say a couple of days to a week and get some feed back, just saying... LOL