FSO Rules

[ImADot]

While you're at it, how about some effort at getting 50/50 sides? 97 allies vs 117 axis is pretty far off the mark.

How about dialing back the attitude a little. The design calls for 50/50 split, but you can't make squads show up with the numbers they've committed to. Some players decide to not show up if they don't get their preferred ride, or their preferred side. Sometimes life gets in the way and players can't make it. You cannot hold the CM team responsible for player no-shows.

EDIT:
Squad assignment total commitment min/max...
Allied 97/137
Axis 99/138

[MachNix]

Gentlemen,

Please relax a moment. This issue is under investigation by the FSO CM staff. If penalties are assessed they will be revealed at the time that the frame scores are released following the third frame. Please begin your preparations for frame #2.

Thanks for your inputs. 

 

swareiam;

To prepare for Frame #2, I could use some clarification of the rules:

Suppose an attack package consisted of one 11-15, one 7-10, and one 4-6 size squads.  Just the two squads (11-15 and the 4-6) would constitute a "credible force" of a minimum of 12 players.  If these two squads hit the target by T+60, could the remaining 7-10 hit the target after T+60?

Thanks.
 

[Snork]

Thank you so very much for your meaningful contribution to the thread. No, I really mean it. Would I lie to you?

[Zoney]

swareiam;

To prepare for Frame #2, I could use some clarification of the rules:

Suppose an attack package consisted of one 11-15, one 7-10, and one 4-6 size squads.  Just the two squads (11-15 and the 4-6) would constitute a "credible force" of a minimum of 12 players.  If these two squads hit the target by T+60, could the remaining 7-10 hit the target after T+60?


Thanks.
 

Yes

[Snork]

How about dialing back the attitude a little. The design calls for 50/50 split, but you can't make squads show up with the numbers they've committed to. Some players decide to not show up if they don't get their preferred ride, or their preferred side. Sometimes life gets in the way and players can't make it. You cannot hold the CM team responsible for player no-shows.

EDIT:
Squad assignment total commitment min/max...
Allied 97/137
Axis 99/138

Attitude? I ain't got no attitude. Just discussing the situation.

[ImADot]

Attitude? I ain't got no attitude. Just discussing the situation.

This does not read like "discussing the situation":

While you're at it, how about some effort at getting 50/50 sides?

It sounds kind of argumentative and a bit snarky, making it sound like you're blaming the design on the numbers imbalance and that there was little effort put into it by the Admin.

[WxMan]

All targets must be attacked within 60 minutes of the start of the frame. They must be attacked with explosive ordinance (rockets and bombs) by a full squadron. Feints and diversions prior to a larger strike force do not satisfy the requirements of this rule. Simply strafing a target with fighters does not satisfy the requirements of this rule. CIC's are expected to construct their orders in such a way that all initial attack aircraft reach their targets by T+60. Administrator CM's may request copies of orders to evaluate the observance of this rule.

And here is the problem for just one little word. While the spirit of the rule may imply that all ordnance carrying aircraft must attack by T+60, the exact verbiage indicates that a full squadron "initially" attacking complies with the rule.

Throughout the year, we have squadrons come and go.  The new ones, if they are diligent, will review and follow the rules, but may act contrary to the original intent due to a different interpretation of the wording while obeying the orders of the CiC. It is possible that this is what happened in Frame 1.  If you remove the word "initial" in this rule, then it becomes more definitive.

FWIW...I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

[swareiam]

CIC's are expected to construct their orders in such a way that all initial attack aircraft reach their targets by T+60.

Gentlemen,

There is but one interpretation to follow here. Did your major attack hit before T+60?

We all understand the definition of what a creditable size force is and a single attack force per target. It is defined in the rules.

Again, did that force attack before T+60. If that specifically did not occur then there is a violation.

Please keep in mind that a violation of this type may not have enough value to sway a win to a loose or draw. Please consider whether you believe the score was close after the event had concluded.

If you are planning missions and executing them... If you are getting players in seats when the frame opens... If you are generally coming out to these events to just have a good time...

Then a T+60 rule violation really wouldn't matter. Too small, too insignificant to turn a judgement of victory.

Let's focus on frame #2. Objectives have been forwarded to frame 2 CICs and squad leaders.

Please check your inboxes.

[qbert55ca]

We also need to see a relaxing of the absolute minimum amount of one type of aircraft flown presently set at 12. This often makes it very difficult to make a meaningful mission as we are trying to hit numbers of planes with numbers of squads that vary on a weekly basis and usually ends up with things like, although a brilliant idea and if they had actually dropped there bombs on time might have been a successful mission), but it's way out of the "spirit of the FSO" to be flying 110's dropping bombs at 28K+ while the base is being defended by P40's/

qbert CO FSO Duxford Wing RAF

 

[Doc4]

I have all of the respect in the world for FSO, it rules, and the CM team that puts it on...I would like to state, before any penalties are assessed, that I did spell out in my orders the time frame that the HE111 would make their strike...and it was approved by a CM before I sent them out, I hid nothing.

 

[qbert55ca]

The 111's are not the problem, the 110's at 28K is way out on a limb for a bombing mission. As a rule of thumb the FSO has always limited bombing attacks to certain altitudes but in last nights roles this was switched to only bombers with drones, so although legal, by the rules it ws really just a Texas http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/bolt.gif.

Secondly, and more importantly,  CM had posted +60min while the group of 28K 110's were moving parallel to target leading us away giving the 111's time to sneak in. If they had not have dropped bombes I would not have had a problem with the 110's either. In this case I would have had a problem with the late 111's.

I'm not blaming anyone here, the CIC had to do something and came up with a plan that worked with what he had to plan with. If we are going to play in the spirit of game, then lets have the planes doing what they are supposed to be doing and not putting planes in ridicules roles just to meet the numbers game.

Q

[Devil 505]

Gentlemen,

There is but one interpretation to follow here. Did your major attack hit before T+60?

We all understand the definition of what a creditable size force is and a single attack force per target. It is defined in the rules.

There is not just one interpretation in this case, it all hinges on what the reader believes "initial" refers to.  In a multifaceted attack, "initial" would come to mean merely the first wave of attackers, regardless of strength.

In fact, the use of "initial" implies a subsequent attack. Which, if referring to the complete strike occurring before T+60, then would actually be a fallacy if no effort to attack the target a second time is made after T+60. You cannot assume an attacking group will return to attack a target after rearming, there is often not enough time.

[captain1ma]

for the record, even with all the flying we did, JG54 dropped their last bomb at T+59!! so we're innocent and you cant prove a thing!!   

"FSO is designed to distribute about half of the workload among the players in FSO by use of CiC's. These CiC's are responsible for specific orders for their side, plane usage by squads, making sure all targets are attacked by T+60, and vectoring squads to other targets during the event."

from the rules, "making sure all targets are attacked by T+60." it does not say "all squads must attack all targets by T+60"

gotta love the epic comedy show of twisted up people in a make believe war! Come on folks take a deep breathe, chalk it up to "we'll get em next time" and enjoy it for what it is! FUN!!!

<S> to everyone who flies FSO and a special <S> to the guys that run it.

While not perfect, it sure is a lot of fun!!

[LilMak]

Just want to get this right since I'm the CIC this week. Based on what I'm reading here, I can have my "credible force" begin their attack before +60. Doesn't have to be the whole force so as long as I get 1 plane in there to drop an egg somewhere. Because that's exactly what some are arguing.

I beleive the intent of the rule is to have the attacks happen on or before T+60 so players aren't flying around for hours waiting on an attack. If you're intentionally planning for attack aircraft to arrive after that point I beleive you're violating the intent of that rule irregardless whether it's spelled out specifically or not.

But if we're going to agree that you can hold unengaged attack forces in reserve so long as the CIC attacks with what the they consider a "credible force" before T+60, I hope the Axis enjoy flying around in circles with nothing to shoot for an hour and forty minutes this week.

[Devil 505]

LilMak, I believe the intent of the rule is to have all bombs dropped by T+60. But unfortunately, the wording in the rules leaves the door open for discussion. But I'd say that based on what Swareiam said, what he expects is exactly this - all bombs dropped before T+60.

What I'd like to see in the future is a less vague definition of the T+60 rule, whether it be "all bombs dropped before T+60" or something that provides a bit more leeway for attacking groups, such as "all ordnance carrying aircraft must be within the dar ring of target by T+60".