.50 cal question

[oakranger]

I did a few run test (P-51, P-47, Temps, and 190) attack a GV.  each plane did five passes on the same side of the tank.  Results: No de-tack.

Will conduct another test run. 

[save]

British data on combat ranges RAF report "2nd T.A.F./O.R.S. Report No. 43" reviewed 482 combats from RAF gun cameras from Spitfires and Tempests.

Of the 272 destroyed claims  from these 482 combats, 86 % were from combat distances of 400 yards or less.
The table (1 - 2 % inaccuracy due to rounding in the original report):

600 yards and less: 96 %
400 yards and less: 86 %
300 yards and less: 74 %
200 yards and less: 52 %


My estimate from my own shooting is that 50% of my kills is from 400 yards or less, 50% is from  longer range.
RL vs AH is very different,

[Gman]

Anyone know how the 20mm Hispano compared to NATO 20mm?  IIRC Hispano was a longer round, heavier too, but I couldn't find anything today on it.  Where is Tony when you need him.

A couple YT videos of a guy shooting a motor block with both 50 API and 20mm solid rounds (the 20mm is 1700gr, and again, IIRC, the Hispano was 2000gr-ish and had high explosive for a warhead which was responsible for much of the damage inflicted on structures).  In the vid the 20mm blew right through the block, the 50 didn't, but still did a lot of damage...no dog in this argument, it's just interesting to discuss IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pEylQ2G5-U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FzzEyegJQ

Shooting at stuff on the ground at 50 yards is obviously not meant to represent scientific evidence of which round does what in terms of air combat, again, just interesting and IMO gives an overall idea of what both rounds are capable of vs the motors of aircraft - 50 to 200 yards these rounds won't lose more than 10 to 15% of their energy potential IMO, and less for the 20mm due to the HE not being affected by velocity - too bad the shooter in the vid didn't have HE 20mm rounds.

[save]

Normally a bullet have to travel through other hard surfaces before entering an engine block, deforming it some,  and also travel some distance.

[Zacherof]

So yester day while in a 4 hog, due to my low ammo I only used a half a second burst on a 47M who was in a high speed/G turn. Whole burst landed on wing and wing sheered off due to the wing being right at my convergence( sometimes rare lol) you ever try to get your convergence on the treads oak tree?
Just a thought. I'll try it after work

[oakranger]

So yester day while in a 4 hog, due to my low ammo I only used a half a second burst on a 47M who was in a high speed/G turn. Whole burst landed on wing and wing sheered off due to the wing being right at my convergence( sometimes rare lol) you ever try to get your convergence on the treads oak tree?
Just a thought. I'll try it after work

My post question is on de-tracking GVs.  I used to do that until one of the upgrades, I can not longer do. 

[EskimoJoe]

Maybe you're just getting old.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[redcatcherb412]

Looking at gun cam footage i dont see any significant difference in hitting power of the .50s, most planes seems to need a few second burst to go down and they dont just fall out of the sky.  But as said above, we usually fires from a greater distance than they did irl and we also dont have a realistic effect of PW:s, IRL any PW most likely force the pilot out of the fight or to bail. We on the other hand dont bother too much about damage planes and wounded pilots as long as it flies.

.
Amen on the pilot wound. Having seen human body damage from a  ma deuce on an m113 APC in the 60's up close and personal.
Very few humans would survive to fight on thru multiple greyouts after being hit by one. An 1800 grain m2 ball slug or
1785 grain tracer round does an impressive amount of damage from even a grazing flesh wound.

[USCH]

Nothing,
Zero,
Nada,
The absence of something.

HiTech

friking awsome made my day after a long work week

is this yet another talk about poor product placement?

[Gman]

1800gr .50 cal gullet?  You sure about that?  Typically the largest rifle 50 rounds are in the 750 to 800 gr range, and surplus/military aircraft 50 rounds are from low 600s to low 700s gr weight.

Still the overall point of pilot wounds from 50 cal strikes is true, yet pilots were wounded by splinters from both the round as well as parts of their aircraft which would have been easily survivable too.

[save]

more granular damage model is probably high on HTC's to-do list.

[redcatcherb412]

1800gr .50 cal gullet?  You sure about that?  Typically the largest rifle 50 rounds are in the 750 to 800 gr range, and surplus/military aircraft 50 rounds are from low 600s to low 700s gr weight.

Still the overall point of pilot wounds from 50 cal strikes is true, yet pilots were wounded by splinters from both the round as well as parts of their aircraft which would have been easily survivable too.

You are correct the M33 Ball is 706.7 grain.  Now i'm trying to figure out the site I saw the table  at 1800. I was probably looking at 20mm instead of .50/12.7mm. Cannot find it now.

[Zacherof]

1800gr .50 cal gullet?  You sure about that?  Typically the largest rifle 50 rounds are in the 750 to 800 gr range, and surplus/military aircraft 50 rounds are from low 600s to low 700s gr weight.

Still the overall point of pilot wounds from 50 cal strikes is true, yet pilots were wounded by splinters from both the round as well as parts of their aircraft which would have been easily survivable too.

also 50 fired under 100 meters (prolly 50) will literally cut a human body in half due to the vortex the bullet creates. I can only imagine what 8 would do 

[VuduVee]

dont know how or why, but a few weeks ago, i was spotting a Panzer with a 47N, i shot nearly straight down, into the top of the tank and killed it. as far as i know he was untouched. its the one and only time ive killed anything besides an m3, m8, m16, or m18 with a MG.

[Zacherof]

A very hard shot IMo great job