List Of Basic Maneuvers

[Mongoose]

  What would you consider the basic combat maneuvers that a new pilot should know before getting involved in a dog fight?

My basic list:
Split-S
Immelman
Barrel Roll
Chandelle

Things like the rolling scissors would be more complex.  I'm looking for basic stuff.  What am I missing from my list?

[DmonSlyr]

Nose down rudder kicks to avoid planes zooming on your 6. It makes it really difficult to shoot at when you go under their nose. Although timing is a factor, best to do it when they are 600-400 out. Use it to get a position for a sharp nose down turn.

[caldera]

The best maneuver I ever saw was when one guy crashed his P-38 and did a 180 on its wheels and then shot down the guy he was fighting.
It was like the "Triple Lindy" of AH. 

[JunkyII]

  What would you consider the basic combat maneuvers that a new pilot should know before getting involved in a dog fight?

My basic list:
Split-S
Immelman
Barrel Roll
Chandelle

Things like the rolling scissors would be more complex.  I'm looking for basic stuff.  What am I missing from my list?

High and low yo yo

[FLS]

What am I missing from my list?

The aileron roll and the loop. Together they form the barrel roll but you learn them separately.

[hgtonyvi]

Does the GHI negative push maneuver counts? Or is that complex to do? Lmao 

[Muzzy]

The eject button?

[Mongoose]

The aileron roll and the loop. Together they form the barrel roll but you learn them separately.

Those two are so basic, I forgot to put them on the list.  Thanks.

[TWCAxew]

Don't forget about the snap roll. It's a life saver!

[Puma44]

Do a search of "Basic Fighter Maneuvers".  There are numerous sources.  Here is one from the available list that has some great info on the basics and the more advanced: https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/documents/02_Training_Air_Wing_Two/01_IUT/01_ACM/SUPPLEMENTS/SUPPLEMENTAL%20DOCUMENTS/NEW%20ACM%20FTI.doc

Be aware that some maneuvers presented on forums are not BFM but, various aerobatic maneuvers that involve advanced skills.  Using aerobatic maneuvers as BFM may confuse the newbie and cause a lot of frustration, not to mention getting smacked time after time due to a lack knowledge of the fundamentals and wondering "why didn't that work?".

Another basic that is rarely discussed/taught, is use of lift vector.  If your "instructor" isn't presenting that and explaining the use of it, they don't know the fundamentals themselves and it's prudent to move on to someone who does.

Seek out those who know the basics and get instruction from them.   

[Kingpin]

Another basic that is rarely discussed/taught, is use of lift vector.  If your "instructor" isn't presenting that and explaining the use of it, they don't know the fundamentals themselves and it's prudent to move on to someone who does.

Puma makes an important point here about Lift Vector.  I would add the following 3 items to the list of basics related to maneuvering that should be understood "before getting involved in a dogfight" (to quote the OP):

1) Pursuit Curves (Lead, Lag and Pure)
2) E (Energy) Management
3) Turn Circles and Circle Flow (turn rate vs. turn radius)

Knowing BFM alone is like learning how each chess piece moves.  But you aren't going to win many chess games simply by knowing how the pieces move.  The important thing is knowing how those pieces can be used in combination, when to make certain moves and why they are right at the given moment.  The same is true with ACM.  So, "before getting involved in a dogfight", I would suggest knowing something about these subjects as well.

<S>
Kingpin

[Mongoose]

  What I am looking for here is a list of what the brand new pilot should know in order to not fly into the ground, and be something more than a moving target.  Kingpin, I appreciate your post, but I am looking more for something I can give a new player and say, "practice these until you have them down, and then let's go have some fun."  While I agree energy management and pursuit curves and the like are important, maybe even vital, a brand new player isn't likely to sit still long enough, or understand the need, until after he has flown a bit.

  I do thank all of you for all of your suggestions.

[Kingpin]

  What I am looking for here is a list of what the brand new pilot should know in order to not fly into the ground, and be something more than a moving target.  Kingpin, I appreciate your post, but I am looking more for something I can give a new player and say, "practice these until you have them down, and then let's go have some fun."  While I agree energy management and pursuit curves and the like are important, maybe even vital, a brand new player isn't likely to sit still long enough, or understand the need, until after he has flown a bit.

  I do thank all of you for all of your suggestions.

OK, I get where you are coming from.  But something as simple as Pursuit Curves is so easily taught/learned, even before they can execute/practice something like a high yo-yo.  So I feel it bears mentioning in your list of basic concepts.

What I often do with somebody new who "wants to learn how to dogfight" before getting too deep into BFM/ACM is simply fly a in a lazy turn and have them point their nose AHEAD of me, so they can see what lead pursuit does for closure rate and then do the same for pure and lag pursuit.  I then do it again reversing my turn direction.

The reason I feel this is so useful is that a surprising number of new players expect to be able to get to where they want (or rapidly gain closure) simply by pointing their nose at the enemy icon.  So, this very quick and simple lesson can be very enlightening in that regard.  Most importantly, it gets them thinking about the most critical concept of combat maneuvering: how you maneuver is entirely relative to how the enemy is (or is capable of) maneuvering.

Thanks for asking for feedback and taking the time to put something together for new players!

<S>
Kingpin

[DmonSlyr]

There are what I call "term words" that define basic maneuvering. Most real pilots understand terminology in a more simple and sructured flight complex. People like me who have little knowledge of actual flight understanding use techniques that are soley contributed from playing AH. I gained the philosophy of ACM and the practice of it "virtually" over many years of flying competively here. I enjoy adding input to these types of conversations because sometimes the terminology or "basic" aspect to it seems difficult to percieve.

Defense maneuvers are a new guys biggest weakness. That's why I mentioned that nose down rudder tactic. It's simple, it's effective, it conserves E, it makes them miss, it sets you up for a nose down turn/or split S or an advanced roll. I flew for 6 months in H2H before I flew in the MA. I learned the "basics" of shooting people down. Little did I know I was still a complete noob. I didn't learn that simple nose down rudder kick manuever in 6 months of playing the game. I didn't know what an Immelman was. I didn't know what a barrel roll defense was. These moves drastically changed the way I fought.  I didn't know there was a "structure" to air combat until I fought the best in the game 1v1 over and over again in the DA. The point is, learning the structure to air combat and "the angles" will help you immensely during any part of your sortie.

Judging peoples E is another HUGE factor. How fast are they going? What plane are they flying? How fast are you going? Define your planes capabilities Vs there's. Can you get them to black out in a nose down spiral dive in order to lose them and gain separation. Can you spiral rope climb them? Can your plane turn inside them? Understanding the planes and their characteristics mixed with E state is soo important. 

Fighting people 1v1 in the DA, especially agaisnt good sticks, will increase your awareness big time. Getting use to the stall and speed ratio of your plane is a major step in getting better. It changed my entire mentality of dog fighting. I use 1v1 tactics during every sortie. It's best to get comfortable with your plane. Use the DA to take the best out of your plane. Make that baby dance. Learn how to control your plane.

My last thing is getting good merges on enemies. Not just 1v1 nose to nose merges, but merges in order to get on a planes 6 the quickest in a furball. Can you merge into someone quickly and pull a snap shot? How close can you get to that plane as they pass you for you to be right on their 6?


Defense defense defense..counterpunching is one of the best ways to get kills.

[Puma44]

The basics will always be important skills, whether it be in real life or virtual life flying.  Trying to start out with more advance maneuvers, will more than likely confuse the "noob", not to mention developing bad habits, and an increasing level of frustration. 

For example, the "nose down rudder kick" is a great move.  It's a technique comprised of BFM, use of lift vector, and energy management.  It may and probably will work well against an opponent who hasn't developed the basic skills.  An opponent who has the basic skills developed will simply counter it with an application of BFM, lift vector adjustment, and energy management to reposition and setup for a shot. 

Earlier, there was mention of learning and using a snap roll.  It's a really cool aerobatic maneuver and requires skill and practice to pull off correctly.  But, it's a huge energy killer and can easily be countered with proper use of BFM.  If using a snap roll works in a particular situation, you're up against an opponent without basic skills.  If it doesn't work, your opponent has skills and you're in trouble.   

Crawl, walk, run.  Get 'em out of order and fall down.