Author Topic: Dogfight : F35 vs F16  (Read 81484 times)

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #330 on: April 21, 2016, 07:41:54 PM »
Pray tell what do you base these claims on? Are you a cybersecurity/communications expert?

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #331 on: April 21, 2016, 07:57:50 PM »
We've been using encrypted data links for decades. Knowing how it works doesn't change the fact that without the encryption key it would take a super commuter until the heat death of the universe to decrypt the data.

Data links currently in NATO use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_Data_Link

In this context Link 16 is the most relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16

Even Jeff Goldblum can't hack these data links...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 08:00:08 PM by GScholz »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline shift8

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #332 on: April 21, 2016, 08:06:38 PM »
If Pierre Sprey (co-designer of the F-16) says the F-35 is garbage, that is good enough for me.



I was wondering when this would be brought up.

Pierre Sprey is a complete and utter moron. He had little to do with the F-16s actual design, and he was considered a somewhat immature and annoying person by people who worked with him. Look it up.

And if that doesnt mean anything to you, just watch Sprey's own videos.

-he thinks the F-15 was a turkey.
-he thinks the F-22 was a turkey.
-he thinks the later model F-16's with radar and BVR abilities ruined his precious F-16.

In other words, to Sprey, anything that isnt a F-16A B-15 is a turkey. I think that just about wraps up his opinion nicely.

Offline shift8

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #333 on: April 21, 2016, 08:10:46 PM »
Pray tell what do you base these claims on? Are you a cybersecurity/communications expert?

He does not need to be. This is information that most people who are serious about researching this sort of thing or who are professionals in the industry take for granted because it is a known quantity.

The chinese are not the cylons, and this is not battlestar galactica.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #334 on: April 21, 2016, 08:57:21 PM »
He does not need to be. This is information that most people who are serious about researching this sort of thing or who are professionals in the industry take for granted because it is a known quantity.

The chinese are not the cylons, and this is not battlestar galactica.

But you both have no clue what you're talking about. I work in IT security and deal with encryption protocols and methodology all the time. Taking this sort of thing as 'granted because it is a known quantity' would get you laughed at by IT professionals. It is possibly the most ignorant thing I have heard when it comes to encryption systems.

Encryption can be broken, you don't always need a supercomputer. All you need is to study the source code for weaknesses. As encryption protocols are written by humans there are always weaknesses (see the recent Juniper issues for example, Heartbleed and numbers other encryption system weaknesses over the last 3 years).

Encryption between things (as opposed to personal devices) often uses fixed keys or fixed authentication/handshake mechanisms. If you know how that mechanism works you have another point of attack (look at the recent issues Fortinet had with their management SSH access).

Guess what the chinese have.

Look at the recent example of Apple and the FBI... look how quickly hackers were able to bypass the security system to provide access to the FBI.

And before you start on rah rah Lockhead is a government organization rah rah higher security/encryption - I would remind you that both Lockheed and RSA (whom Lockheed uses for security) got hacked.


Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #335 on: April 21, 2016, 09:20:02 PM »
How many NATO aircraft, ships and other vehicles have been hacked? None. You're comparing a highly secure military network that has very limited functionality, with civilian networks designed for much broader communication and uses. You can't hack an F-16 via the Link 16 network because there is no system in that network designed to accept commands or allow access to anything. That you work in civilian IT security is irrelevant. We're not talking about civilian IT.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline artik

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #336 on: April 21, 2016, 09:48:20 PM »
... You're comparing a highly secure military network that has very limited functionality, with civilian networks ... That you work in civilian IT security is irrelevant. We're not talking about civilian IT.

Since I come with a background in many relevant areas including Cryptography and experience in relevant field I can say only one thing

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #337 on: April 21, 2016, 09:59:10 PM »
That's fine Artik. I don't really expect more from you. :)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline shift8

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #338 on: April 21, 2016, 10:00:12 PM »
Since I come with a background in many relevant areas including Cryptography and experience in relevant field I can say only one thing

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Well. Since I have actually worked with military crypto and have experience working with people who work even more so with military crypto, all I can say is one thing

 :devil

In all seriousness though, all this "expert opinion" fallacy is getting rather old.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 10:02:44 PM by shift8 »

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #339 on: April 21, 2016, 10:06:15 PM »
Wore these for the better part of three years, but what do I know...

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline shift8

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #340 on: April 21, 2016, 10:08:46 PM »
Wore these for the better part of three years, but what do I know...

(Image removed from quote.)

+1

Offline FLOOB

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #341 on: April 21, 2016, 11:53:10 PM »
Anybody who thinks the f-35 is caca obviously hasnt watched this.

http://youtu.be/I6OXjnBIW-4
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans” - John Steinbeck

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #342 on: April 22, 2016, 12:46:23 AM »
Reggie rules.

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #343 on: April 22, 2016, 12:53:22 AM »
Well. Since I have actually worked with military crypto and have experience working with people who work even more so with military crypto, all I can say is one thing

 :devil

In all seriousness though, all this "expert opinion" fallacy is getting rather old.

and I've worked with military people coming into civilian IT and all I can say is...

 :bhead



btw gs, google NATO system hacked... and have a good read.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #344 on: April 22, 2016, 01:01:44 AM »
Google "conspiracy morons will believe anything" and have a good laugh.  :aok
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."