loss of members

[Wiley]

I truly believe that if more energy and attention was placed on providing some sort of structured training environment for new players, we'd not only see the gross number of players go up, but along with it an increase in the ratio of quality players to those who are making the game what it is today.

You're assuming people actually want to get better though.  This game's learning curve is a rarity in gaming these days.  Most people don't want to put in the time to learn a game as deep as this unless there's something to work towards.  Making some kind of number tick up in a database for some reason causes people to invest a lot of time in a game.  When that incentive's not there, very few people want to put in the time to get good for some reason.  The other thing with this game is there's no matchmaking.

First sortie fliers are lumped in with 16 year vets, all in the same arena.  It helps to be some kind of masichist when that's the scenario.  I honestly don't know how I put up with the early days of my flight sim career getting stomped on day in and day out.  I guess because I just loved flying cartoon planes.

In my flight sim career I've likely spent more time than most talking with trainers, but I really had to be in the mood to train.  If the game had some kind of structure that made training necessary at times, I wouldn't have liked that much.  I'm not sure what structured training would even look like.

Wiley.

[FishBait]

You're assuming people actually want to get better though.  This game's learning curve is a rarity in gaming these days.  Most people don't want to put in the time to learn a game as deep as this unless there's something to work towards.  Making some kind of number tick up in a database for some reason causes people to invest a lot of time in a game.  When that incentive's not there, very few people want to put in the time to get good for some reason.  The other thing with this game is there's no matchmaking.

First sortie fliers are lumped in with 16 year vets, all in the same arena.  It helps to be some kind of masichist when that's the scenario.  I honestly don't know how I put up with the early days of my flight sim career getting stomped on day in and day out.  I guess because I just loved flying cartoon planes.

In my flight sim career I've likely spent more time than most talking with trainers, but I really had to be in the mood to train.  If the game had some kind of structure that made training necessary at times, I wouldn't have liked that much.  I'm not sure what structured training would even look like.

Wiley.

We're 100% on the same page, really.

Regarding 'structured' training, I wasn't envisioning anything mandatory. I was thinking more along the lines of things like in-game (and in-depth) documentation/tutorials/process checklists, being assigned a trainer during registration (who you're free to contact or not at your discretion), expanding and better organizing web-based instruction, staff / trainer led noob missions flown at regular intervals daily, etc. Just rolling ideas off my head - so they may not be well-thought out idead - but just to give you the jist of what I was thinking.

[Zoney]

This is a tough, unforgiving game.  So was AirWarrior 2 decades ago.  I do know why I stuck with it.  Because I wanted to be one of "those" guys.  Those guys that killed me over and over and over.

I had been playing AW for about a week.  Just enough time to have gotten a few kills, probably newbies like myself.  I had learned that having a bit more alt than your opponent was useful.  With this newfound, precious knowledge I attacked some fool that was flying around near the deck.  2 turns later, I'm dead.  Ha!  He got lucky, I'll show him!  Went back to where he had been and there he is stupidly still flying low and I pounced. Tower.  Grab another plane and attack with anger.  Tower.  Get more alt on the next attack.  Tower.  Get a different plane, because that's obviously the problem.  Tower.  Get in the same plane as him.  Tower.  Attack from co-alt.  Tower.  Call him name and attack.  Tower.  Call his mother names and attack.  Tower.  Attack him while he's fighting another plane.  Tower.  Drink a beer.  Tower.

Then my tormentor said:  "Hey Zoney, you want some help?"  "Yes".  "OK, I'm in a little squad here called the Pigstompers, join it, there are always some of us on.  We can help you to have more fun."

It was Deth7.  I did have more fun.  I stuck it out.  I made friends.

Here's the point I am attempting to make.

The squad thingy is invaluable.

I think we should have a "Training" squad.  Some place for people to start, all on the same vox so they may each learn as everyone is asking questions.  A place to be with new friends that will most likely become permanent friends even if the squad is not their permanent squad.  A squad also registered with FSO's to haul those new guys in there too.  It needs a patient and giving CO & XO.  They can train together in the TA and the DA knowing they aren't up against a 20 year veteran uberstick that they envision laughing at their deaths. 

No, we aren't going to call them the "Baby Seals" or anything derogatory.

No, it won't be run by me, sorry, I'm in JG11 for life.

Actually, and don't laugh now, I was thinking Dolby.  He's even English so he sounds smart.

[Brooke]

Holy toejam all of you are still talking about Aces High

What the heck?  That's what we've been talking about here the whole time?  I feel cheated.

[mikev]

This is a tough, unforgiving game.  So was AirWarrior 2 decades ago.  I do know why I stuck with it.  Because I wanted to be one of "those" guys.  Those guys that killed me over and over and over.

I had been playing AW for about a week.  Just enough time to have gotten a few kills, probably newbies like myself.  I had learned that having a bit more alt than your opponent was useful.  With this newfound, precious knowledge I attacked some fool that was flying around near the deck.  2 turns later, I'm dead.  Ha!  He got lucky, I'll show him!  Went back to where he had been and there he is stupidly still flying low and I pounced. Tower.  Grab another plane and attack with anger.  Tower.  Get more alt on the next attack.  Tower.  Get a different plane, because that's obviously the problem.  Tower.  Get in the same plane as him.  Tower.  Attack from co-alt.  Tower.  Call him name and attack.  Tower.  Call his mother names and attack.  Tower.  Attack him while he's fighting another plane.  Tower.  Drink a beer.  Tower.

Then my tormentor said:  "Hey Zoney, you want some help?"  "Yes".  "OK, I'm in a little squad here called the Pigstompers, join it, there are always some of us on.  We can help you to have more fun."

It was Deth7.  I did have more fun.  I stuck it out.  I made friends.

Here's the point I am attempting to make.

The squad thingy is invaluable.

I think we should have a "Training" squad.  Some place for people to start, all on the same vox so they may each learn as everyone is asking questions.  A place to be with new friends that will most likely become permanent friends even if the squad is not their permanent squad.  A squad also registered with FSO's to haul those new guys in there too.  It needs a patient and giving CO & XO.  They can train together in the TA and the DA knowing they aren't up against a 20 year veteran uberstick that they envision laughing at their deaths. 

No, we aren't going to call them the "Baby Seals" or anything derogatory.

No, it won't be run by me, sorry, I'm in JG11 for life.

Actually, and don't laugh now, I was thinking Dolby.  He's even English so he sounds smart.

 

good idea Zoney. kinda reminds me of that movie  Flyboys. Maybe use that for a squad name lol. to be honest the learning curve in this game is more like a flat wall with very few footholds. whenever someone offers help, take every bit of advice you can.

[Shuffler]

so why in the world are there 13 players on a Saturday night?  I love this game, and have been paying for many years, but I think it is dying.  I remember when I would log on and there would almost always be an update to download.  I couldn't tell you the last time I saw an update to this game, other than the beta for aces high 3, which by the way will never attract enough players to make it worth while.  This is really sad, and I can see the end of this game in site. 

that is sad.

AH II will not be updated. No reason to as AH III is replacing it soon.

[Shuffler]

For those that have not been in AH III, the game will change. The bases are different. Even the GV bases have rolling hills on them. You can't see from one side to the other.

If you are on the deck your own base is hard to find since it blends in so well.

[FishBait]

This is a tough, unforgiving game.  So was AirWarrior 2 decades ago.  I do know why I stuck with it.  Because I wanted to be one of "those" guys.  Those guys that killed me over and over and over.

I think we should have a "Training" squad.  Some place for people to start, all on the same vox so they may each learn as everyone is asking questions.  A place to be with new friends that will most likely become permanent friends even if the squad is not their permanent squad.  A squad also registered with FSO's to haul those new guys in there too.  It needs a patient and giving CO & XO.  They can train together in the TA and the DA knowing they aren't up against a 20 year veteran uberstick that they envision laughing at their deaths. 

I think this is an awesome idea, and would be happy to get involved in some capacity if it ever came to fruition.

[pipz]

I cant help but give Zoney's posts   

Everyone starts not knowing anything. Remember being born? Somehow you all made it this far. Congrats! 

[Max]

HUZZAH!!!

[Shuffler]

I think this is an awesome idea, and would be happy to get involved in some capacity if it ever came to fruition.

We have this now. It is called the Training Arena.

How much time have you spent there with the new folks? How many new folks actually go to the TA?

I think most new folks go straight to the MA. They do not even read any of the web pages that have info on the most basic controls or commands.

You have to have folks who want to learn before you can teach them anything.

Too many so called free games where you can buy yourself to the top out there. There is no up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right, press a&b button shortcut here.

[whiteman]

When AHIII is out I think some oldies will be back and new people will come in as well. I'll make time when it does. If you want to play against the best in this genre, this is the place to go.

[Wiley]

I think most new folks go straight to the MA. They do not even read any of the web pages that have info on the most basic controls or commands.

It would be a really stellar idea though to have that information in game.  Regardless of personal feelings on it, look at 95% of the rest of the games out there.  Copious amounts of help and hand holding available in game, right at your fingertips from the first time you start them up.  This is what people have come to expect.

Here, the information exists, but it's not right there available for you.  You have to go looking for it in relatively obscure places compared to most other games.

Wiley.

[bustr]

In the past when we had the numbers, the newbie relied on the mission to hide in and learn the game. The vets relied on the massed mission to provide action if nothing else was going on. The newbie learned the game and air combat by hiding safe in the mission which almost every night many were launched by the well known mission stars of each country. The mission acted as a mentoring process where the newbie could return to with the knowledge that they could gain a few victories or just not get shellacked every time they upped alone.

Fast forward to our low numbers today. It is not like we don't have the numbers for missions. We no longer have many vets who want to do more than wait for action to start up and take advantage of the short window of opportunity to pick people. Or play out their lone wolf fantasies. Newbies have never done very well as a rule learning the game by dueling in the DA. Our current lone wolf mentality by many vets who want the action brought to them will hurt the ability of the game to keep newbies. So you get lame game play directly due to the lack of an in game function that doubles as a mentoring and peer pressure process. Our current vets act as poorly and childish as the newbies they accuse of being the source of all the lame game play in the game that they feel is killing the game. And they all sit back waiting for someone else to get the newbies straightened out and bringing the action to them instead of leading by example with missions.

A very tiny percentage of new subscribers have what it takes to become lone wolf DA stars which is what todays game is forcing on newbies because the vets no longer want to be engaged in creating the action. The majority of newbies will happily keep paying their subscription if they perceive a fun process is in place to hide in until they build the experience to venture off alone. That has always been a 3-18 month process depending on the person. Has no one ever wondered how we kept so many newbies who never went to the TA, or the Wiki, or read anything in the forums over all of those years before 2009?

Today the attitude is that it's some one else's responsibility, and todays vet just wants quick action and screw missions or lead anything to create fun. Newbies like small children do what they see, not what you tell them to do. "We" have let our future newbies and "our" game down with the current general lone wolf screw you attitude.   

[FishBait]

We have this now. It is called the Training Arena.

How much time have you spent there with the new folks? How many new folks actually go to the TA?

I think most new folks go straight to the MA. They do not even read any of the web pages that have info on the most basic controls or commands.

You have to have folks who want to learn before you can teach them anything.

Too many so called free games where you can buy yourself to the top out there. There is no up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right, press a&b button shortcut here.

When you're new you don't know what to do. The online documentation is - or at least was - partial at best, disorganized, with many of the gaps being filled in by the community, meaning you had to know where to look, or go on a google hunt to find it. and hope it wasn't outdated by the time you did.

Ask questions in the text buffer & you may get help, or you may not. Depends on who feels like answering at the time. Sure there's a training arena. Will there be anyone in there? Doubtful. As a new guy I don't even know for sure how the TA is to be used, or if I'm to use it, but the fact it and the DA are empty 90% of the time will likely give me the impression that it's not a usable resource.

Without a doubt - many people don't want to learn. That's what we're getting now. But I strongly believe that the lack of reliable, intuitive resources designed to get new players up to speed in a reasonable timespan is turning a lot of potential players away.