Author Topic: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria  (Read 4515 times)

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2016, 03:13:02 AM »
It could as well be a friendly fire accident, it could have been the second Hind that hit the tail rotor of the first one.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2016, 11:50:22 AM »
Found this:

"The Russian Defense Ministry said Saturday that Daesh terrorists shot down a helicopter near Syria’s Palmyra, killing two Russian military instructor pilots.

    On July 8, Russian military instructor pilots conducted a test flight of a Syrian Mi-25 helicopter (export version of the Mi-24 helicopter), when it received a request from the Syrian authorities to carry out airstrikes against a large group of Daesh terrorists advancing to the east of Palmyra, the ministry said.

    "The crew received a request from the Syrian unit’s command to strike the advancing fighters. The captain, Ryastudmuffinat Khabibulin, made a decision to attack the terrorists. The skillful actions of the Russian crew thwarted the terrorists’ advance.

    When the helicopter’s ammunition was spent and it changed its course to the opposite direction, it was shot down by terrorists from the ground and crashed in an area controlled by the Syrian government army. The helicopter’s crew was killed."


There is also speculation that it was a friendly fire incident and that the Hind was hit by fire from the trailing Hind...

It's not a Mi-25, its a Mi-35M. And it was most likely not Syrian but belonged to the Russian forces.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2016, 05:48:44 PM »
It's not a Mi-25, its a Mi-35M. And it was most likely not Syrian but belonged to the Russian forces.

This site came to the same conclusion, kind of throwing a monkey wrench into the Russian MoD's explanation that it was a Syrian Mi-25 with a Russian flight crew on a test flight when asked to engage some targets.

https://citeam.org/ruaf-mil-mi-35-hind-e-down/
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2016, 06:15:55 PM »
The video contradicts the MoD story, the helo was firing and thus not Out of ammo and on its way back, there are also weird to use a helo doing a test flight for combat operations.

The Mi-35M, unlike the Mi-25, has a fixed landing gear and the gear is clearly shown in the video.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2016, 06:16:52 PM »
Both the Mi-25 and Mi-35 are export versions, so it could just be a typo by the journalist.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2016, 06:21:11 PM »
It's still a huge difference between the two versions and its rather important since a Mi-25 suggest it was a syrian helo (as claimed) while a Mi-35M is most likely a Russian one.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2016, 06:40:42 PM »
Are we sure the Syrians don't have Mi-35s now? Russians flying export versions sounds strange.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Gman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2016, 06:43:30 PM »
Lots of interesting stuff, that Mi24P cannon flash is interesting, wouldn't have noticed that, having a flash behind the actual nose of the Helo until that video.

Have to agree with Gscholz too, Vulcan is right I think, great finding those blown up pics and vids/etc. 

Whatever the cause, and whatever the variant, export or otherwise, they are one tough customer to shoot down, I was going to link the old thread, it had at least 4 videos of various variants of the Hind taking manpads hits and shrugging them off, at least long enough to fly out of the video.  Just a "golden BB" IMO, whatever struck the tail in that spot, probably THE weak point of any helo that isn't a NOTAR or whatever type. 

I think the only vid I've seen of a Hind going down to a missile is the one with the GoPro which was attached to the Ukrainian Hind and it took some sort of missile hit, and went straight in, and the camera made it - no way to tell what hit it, could have been a much larger missile than a manpads too, SA6s have obviously known to shoot things down in that area...

I wonder how the AH64 stands up, truly, compared to the MI24 variants in terms of taking hits.  I remember in Gulf War 2 there was an operation where some crazy number, like 20 out of 24 Apaches took fire that badly damaged them, some shot down as well.

edit - It was the 11th's Helo squadron of Apaches near Karbala - only one was shot down/lost, but the rest were hammered pretty good.  I wonder in a peer state conflict, when 25+ year old Russian manpads or Chinese copies of such take out AH1s so easily as per the last thread here about that Turkish shoot down - if 95 percent of the Apaches from the 11th got chewed up so bad by just AAA and small arms/MGs, what happens when they run into swarms of infantry deployed manpads units on top of that?  How good are the IR jammers/countermeasures and the new active defense stuff on US helos?

Quote
Of the 29 returning Apaches, all but one suffered serious damage. On average, each Apache had 15-20 bullet holes; one Apache even took 29 hits. Sixteen main rotor blades, six tail blades, six engines and five drive shafts were damaged beyond repair. In one squadron only a single helicopter was deemed fit to fly. It took a month until the 11th Regiment was ready to fight again. The casualties sustained by the Apaches induced a change of tactics by placing significant restrictions on their use.[11] Attack helicopters would now be used to reveal the location of enemy troops, allowing them to be destroyed by artillery and air strikes.[3]
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 06:46:29 PM by Gman »

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2016, 07:02:51 PM »
Are we sure the Syrians don't have Mi-35s now? Russians flying export versions sounds strange.

Yes they do. A Russian Air force Mi-35M:
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2016, 07:13:35 PM »
I don't Think it was a SAM, a heat seaking missile should have hit closer to the exhausts and i highly doubt that there are any more advanced SAM:s operated by IS in the area. A lucky shot by a AAA is more likely, a 23 or 30mm round taking out the tail rotor.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2016, 07:31:32 PM »
I don't Think it was a SAM, a heat seaking missile should have hit closer to the exhausts and i highly doubt that there are any more advanced SAM:s operated by IS in the area. A lucky shot by a AAA is more likely, a 23 or 30mm round taking out the tail rotor.

That one site I linked to made a good argument for friendly fire being the cause.
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2016, 07:36:41 PM »
It is very plausible and i wrote about it in my first post. It is however hard to prove it with 100% certainty from that video alone.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2016, 07:39:57 PM »
It is very plausible and i wrote about it in my first post. It is however hard to prove it with 100% certainty from that video alone.

It will be very hard to determine the cause, especially when the Russian MoD's explanation was that the helicopter was hit by a TOW missile.
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3077
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2016, 07:43:18 PM »
Yes, unless more videos are 'leaked' it will be hard to determine the cause. but a lucky AAA or friendly fire seems most likely. A tow... not so much, it would be an extremely hard thing to do.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9915
Re: Mi24 shoot down video from this week in Syria
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2016, 11:14:10 PM »
That one site I linked to made a good argument for friendly fire being the cause.

You mean the one I linked to!   :devil