No icons for AH3

[Zoney]

It doesnt matter if I can see the dots not. If someone else cant, that is a personal problem they should deal with. The game should not be altered to accommodate every oddity under the sun.

Sir it is you that is suggesting the game should be altered.  HiTech set it up as you see it and play it now, with ICONS.  I hope you can continue to enjoy it as it is.

[jimson]

Except that varying hardware affects what can/can't be seen.  But you don't want to admit that that's a factor for some reason.  I don't understand why you guys won't accept the downsides of your choice, and just pretend they don't exist.  However you insist on throwing up words like "immersion" and "realism" to attempt to gain support.

Wiley.

Again, I am not advocating expansion of the use of no icons.

I have never supported it's use in the MA.

i am defending those that enjoy that type of game from false characterizations.

[Zoney]

You seem to be confused. I have never advocated a no icon game in the MA.

I am only defending those that enjoy a NO ENEMY icon game in the AvA, from the unfair accusations that they are only seeking an advantage over other players, that's all.

I apologize for my confusion.  I was talking about no Icons in any arena actually.  The exception would be custom arenas that are the choice of the few who want them.  If they were popular and continuing, I am pretty sure a permanent arena would be set up to accommodate them.

I know you don't think the no ICONS in the AVA is not the reason it was empty, but that is the reason I did not play in it.  There is nothing I would like more than to have an Axis VS Allied arena a viable setting.  As you may know, I am a member of JG11, we only fly Axis aircraft in the MA.  I never relish going up against other axis aircraft in the MA.  I want to fight the Allied's in my Luftwaffe birds, every time.

Lastly sir, <S>, I truly appreciate you trying to make the AVA work as you are a staff member.  I appreciate your efforts and respect you greatly for that.

[Zoney]

Jimson, where exactly in "Southern Arizona" do you live.  I'm in Phoenix, I'd love to giggle about the game over a couple of beers.

[guncrasher]

It shouldn't be so hard to understand that no one has an undue advantage if the settings are the same for all.

Talking to you is a waste of time. You are determined to believe what you want to believe, so go ahead with that.

actually there's a disadvantage for me. when the pigs used to go to the ava during squad night a few years ago, I couldnt play.  I couldnt tell the difference between a plane and the shadow.  I got 20/20 vision but anything a foot away from me is a blur.  I have same problem in fso and scenarios.  I just follow the people untill the icons appear then I can see the planes.

and just for your info, I have a 27in monitor at 1440, 970 vc with a 2500k cpu.  I play ah3 with everything on and 1 notch of em.  but if there's a plane flying at treetop level or just above the waves, I cant hit it for crap.

semp

[jimson]

Zoney

I'm down Tucson way, but if either of us ever get up or down each others way we'll have that beer.

I'm sure you know the history of the AvA. It has struggled for a long while to gain successful attendance, long before I became involved.

Several years ago at the suggestion of NrRaven, jaeger turned the enemy icons off. This turned out to be the most successful period in the AvA in recent times and it started all the contention too, but for a couple of years we had some good times.

We built a core group of no enemy icon fans. After awhile it wore off and we tried several time to turn them back on and it seemed we lost more regulars than we gained. For a while an update made it impossible to turn them off.

Most recently it's been a struggle no matter what the icon settings were.

I don't know if you were with JG11 a few years ago when we were running a weekly 8th vs LW set up in there.

We had enemy icons on for that, so we were never totally inflexible.

I have been on an extended break from the game for a while so I'm not sure what settings the guys currently run but I am planning on returning.

I have always wanted to try a Combat Tour lite sort of RPG game employing the staged mission system. I'll do it with any icon settings. Icons on or off aren't a deal breaker to me.

I kind of like the idea of an icon system where they would become visible further out like they currently do, but would disappear under 1000 yards distance or less.

That would provide some of the things I like about it without some of the things others don't

[Wiley]

Again, I am not advocating expansion of the use of no icons.

I have never supported it's use in the MA.

i am defending those that enjoy that type of game from false characterizations.

You keep saying "level playing field" then ignoring the fact that different hardware can render things around you invisible.  I fail to see the false characterization.

Wiley.

[jimson]

You keep saying "level playing field" then ignoring the fact that different hardware can render things around you invisible.  I fail to see the false characterization.

Wiley.

I can't help you if you refuse to believe that "gaming the game" isn't the reason why a lot of us like no enemy icons.

You don't know what sort of hardware any of us have. For all you know, you see the dots better than we do.

[Wiley]

I can't help you if you refuse to believe that "gaming the game" isn't the reason why a lot of us like no enemy icons.

You don't know what sort of hardware any of us have. For all you know, you see the dots better than we do.

And that is exactly my point. I do not care what you see. It does not matter what we personally see.

What does matter is the game's single most important feature, the ability to see and identify other aircraft, should not be most dependent on your hardware and eyesight to be effective.  That is flat out bad design.

Wiley.

[jimson]

And that is exactly my point. I do not care what you see. It does not matter what we personally see.

What does matter is the game's single most important feature, the ability to see and identify other aircraft, should not be most dependent on your hardware and eyesight to be effective.  That is flat out bad design.

Wiley.

So what do you want? never to have no icons in the main arena? I agree.

Is that enough or do you want every arena to be forced to run icons at all times?

If you have some strange need for me to "see the light" and agree with you, I guess you will have to be disappointed.

Cheers.

[Wiley]

So what do you want? never to have no icons in the main arena? I agree.

Is that enough or do you want every arena to be forced to run icons at all times?

If you have some strange need for me to "see the light" and agree with you, I guess you will have to be disappointed.

Cheers.

What I want is for you guys to own up to the fact that you want to hobble your opponents. You keep saying "oh no no no.  Immersion...   Realism".  That is how bad ideas gain traction is people seeing stuff like that without seeing the downside.

Your post I responded to in the first place was you saying you didn't want to hobble your opponents you just wanted immersion.  As I pointed out, your goal is actually to have your opponents less able to see you so you can bounce them and whatever else.  I just do not see why you guys have such a problem with saying that.

And then in the next breath when people start talking about how to set up your rig to see dots easier, well that's kind of like advocating for night flying with your finger on the gamma adjustment slider.  It is kind of hard not to look at it as trying to gain advantage.

Simply put, in much the same way you do not like it when people point out the above, I do not like it when you guys attempt to claim it is not about giving yourselves less aware opponents.

Wiley.

[jimson]

You can just go on not liking it then because that is not the case.

Move on dude.

[Wiley]

You can just go on not liking it then because that is not the case.

Move on dude.

Just answer this simple question-  How is it exactly that no icons changes your opponent's behavior if not by making him less able to see the other aircraft around him?

Wiley.

[jimson]

Just answer this simple question-  How is it exactly that no icons changes your opponent's behavior if not by making him less able to see the other aircraft around him?

Wiley.

As much as the settings allow, it changes it for everyone. I only see through my eyes, so I don't know what everyone else sees.

For me, it's more satisfying to ID a plane model by sight, not billboard. I think it makes the game look cooler.

Equipment advantages occur throughout this game. I don't know who has a giant monitor and I don't know who has custom rudder pedals and the top of the line hotas.

This game isn't like IL2/Hyperlobby. I can't create a custom arena without a lot of limitations.

We never had two AvA's to offer, one icon, one no icon, so we took a little used arena and gave it a different twist. We found at the time, there was a market for it.

If what you say about the game play is accurate, it is a byproduct, not the main impetus.

At least for me it is, and you are not qualified to determine what my motives are.

[Wiley]

If what you say about the game play is accurate, it is a byproduct, not the main impetus.

It is a byproduct, but it's a major, fundamental gamechanging consequence for other players.  That's all I was ever saying.  With your immersion, comes this consequence.

By Shift8's posts, he thinks he has the "scanning" skill for it not to affect him/give him an edge.  He is option 1 of the two I mentioned, you happen to be the 2.

Wiley.