Risk Aversion Rewared

[Chalenge]

Yeah, what I said. 

[Latrobe]

Score is the most pointless thing in the entire game. It means absolutely nothing and can not (and never will) show even close to accurate skill level. I remember frequently killing "elite" fighter pilots whose rank was in the top 10 while mine was over 2000.

A lot of people in the MA though have extremely massive egos that blind them to everything but their score and take it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to seriously (I'm convinced these people print out their stats each tour and get them framed to hang on the wall). They have yet to realize that no one cares what your stats in a video game look like.

[Lusche]

A lot of people in the MA though have extremely massive egos that blind them to everything but their score and take it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to seriously (I'm convinced these people print out their stats each tour and get them framed to hang on the wall).

There are a lot of EGOs flying in AH, but I'm absolutely convinced that the number of players looking at their score like that ^^^^ is very small.
Else it wouldn't be, for example, so simple to get a very good 'overall' rank with just a few missions in everything. Would be much harder if there really was a competition about that.
I firmly believe the vast majority just shrugs when it comes to their ranks. 'Competitive score players' are few & far between, and many do the score thing just for the occasional tour to see how far their get, before falling back into their usual (and probably more fun) routine.

If you see someone running, it's most of the time not for 'protecting their score' (would really work for bombers only anyway). It's because players just can't stand to get shot down. (Or because they are actually RTBing )

[Vudak]

Also, Louche, it's crazy the difference in statistics from 2006 and now. I think is purely based on # of players and good competitors. You can see from 2006, that it was much more difficult and you had to get much higher #s to be the top fighter.

I actually think the arena is much more competitive now than it was in 2006. Your view may be skewed because you are much better than me, but take it from someone on "the B team..." This game is more of a challenge now than ever.

Take a typical night in fighter town over NDISLES for example... My sorties go something like this:

"Ok, coalt con... niki... darn it, 2cmex shot me down... k4... darn it, there's sawzaw... Oh, good!  A 190! Easy kill! ... Darn Starfox... Look behind me, there's some 47s winging... Darn 56th... Now a 38... Akak... Another 38... Shuffler...A spitty! Darn it! What the heck is Bruv doing up this late!? Ooooooooo a low and slow con...  WTH now it's a Muppet flying on the other country!"

There are less players, sure, and probably less "top tier" sticks, but the chances of me encountering someone who can clean my clock is exceptional. There really aren't that many people out there who have no idea what they're doing any more. I don't envy the new guy.

[Invictus84]

Time spent manoeuvring to advantage or waiting for the "pick" or always ensuring you rtb must affect the kills/hr ratio.

I think if you want to influence the fighter score ( in the manner I think you would wish)  then the system should reward the kills/ hour more or better still find some way to measure and reward the engagements / hour ( possibly adding pertinent deaths to this scoring element).

Of course this penalises such things as escort......but escort is a rare thing anyway.

Conversely

I see or at least have seen praise here for folk who just throw them selves into a combat with ( should the situation actually be looked at in advance) no hope of a successfull outcome.

Indeed I have, when some what bored, done exactly the same. Diving into a group of enemy knowing they are communicating and slowly ( or some times more quickly) being e drained or manoeuvred to a point where the thousand cuts become one too many or I am saddled with no real hope of evasion.

This is usually the last desperate attempt at entertainment before I log out.

The argument of some is that by doing this I will improve my skill. Playing this genre of game for some 20 years now I think I can pretty well be certain that there is no metamorphism of ability awaiting me. My trained reactions and instinctive ACM is not going to substantially improve.

What I can do is out think my opponent, not give him an edge, maximise my edge, don't do dumb things, know when to bug out, know when to stay for the kill, apply a dicipline of game play.

Do I do this all the time? No this too would become boring. Does it bring reward when applied? Yes..... Because I set out to do it and it worked.

However, somehow I feel that this would not fit into the world that some would wish to advance..........

Experience and guile v energy and skill??

Bingo. 

[NatCigg]

What we are looking for is kill quality.  The numbers side would be hard to obtain. original alt, distance from home, number of localized individuals engaged in the fight, aircraft type, fighting style; really a live judge that can actively evaluate the scoring system.  But we need numbers, and im not sure they exist to truly define skill.  The real skill is gaming the already established scoring system.  If you change the system the players adapt to become number !.

I would like to see score start at 25% in your ack increasing to 100% at 7k and decreasing like the atmosphere from 12k up to 0% at 40k.

Also, Score is an additional 25% at home increasing to 100% at 15 Miles.

Thus the scoring system promotes players of all types to fly at 10k and 15 miles from home to get 100%

 
 
 

[waystin2]

[Lusche]

I would like to see score start at 25% in your ack increasing to 100% at 7k and decreasing like the atmosphere from 12k up to 0% at 40k.

Yeah, 'cause we all know that it's so much easier to shoot down a B-17 or B-29 at 33K than at 3k... 

[The Fugitive]

It amazes me how many people whine about others' gameplay.  Like "dam, him for finding an efficient and effective way for me not to kill him.  Its just not fair!"  Whine, whine, whine.   Well, if the whiner is so dam good, and it bothers him sooooo much, then he should show his awesome-ness by being able to find a way to hunt down and draw the bad guy into a fight.  Otherwise, the bad guys is just doing what he thinks he has to do to play the game to his satisfaction and stay alive while doing it.  No doubt its not as much fun to the big game hunter not to have his prey just march right into the trap and commit suicide, but's that's the way it is.  To me, such whiners are more of a pain than any timid fighter pilot.  Get over yourself.  We're not here for your enjoyment, really!

Which game would you like to play, 50 guys flying at 20k only engaging when the enemy con is busy, AKA "the pick", or a game with 200 guys all below 10k Bnz and turning and burning? Because if you continue to support the High alt "pickers" all of the people who join in to check out the "24 hours of continuous combat" are going to see long climb out times boring duck and chase fights and end their subscription.

People join a game that has quick action when they are looking for a combat game. Whats wrong with tweaking the score, as well as other things that will make it more beneficial for more people to seek out combat instead of avoiding it? 

[nrshida]

It amazes me how many people whine about others' gameplay.  Like "dam, him for finding an efficient and effective way for me not to kill him.  Its just not fair!"  Whine, whine, whine.

Are you referring to the anecdote I introduced this topic with?

[DmonSlyr]

Which game would you like to play, 50 guys flying at 20k only engaging when the enemy con is busy, AKA "the pick", or a game with 200 guys all below 10k Bnz and turning and burning? Because if you continue to support the High alt "pickers" all of the people who join in to check out the "24 hours of continuous combat" are going to see long climb out times boring duck and chase fights and end their subscription.

People join a game that has quick action when they are looking for a combat game. Whats wrong with tweaking the score, as well as other things that will make it more beneficial for more people to seek out combat instead of avoiding it?

Tweaking the score won't change the way these people fly, the ones who fly high and timidly are already ruining their score therefore changing the score will not change the way these particular people fly.

As an example, I never really get above 15K, most of the time I have 2-3 guys trying to gang me. The majority of the people don't understand how to effectively fly for score. Because if they did, they wouldn't be 25k Chery pickers. They would be inside the furball getting 3-4 quick kills. The players that acruslly get into 1v1 and 1v2 fights and win, are better rankers than players who sit high and pick. Most of the time these players miss their pick shots and don't know how to effectively BnZ. Really and truly, the more aggressive you are, the better score you get, that being said. You still have to know what you are doing.

[nrshida]

Interesting discussion. I can see it's divisive. Is a pattern emerging I wonder that 'skill' can't be scored and those who pursue it generally ignore score? Is the inverse also implied I wonder?

[LCADolby]

I'd like to opt out of rank. But keep the other stuff for me to look at. Wishlist the opt out Shida, like I need to move a CV, 109T isn't in AcesHigh anyway 

[Shuffler]

I want to see the tree's score. I say ban tree kills. The trees are using some third party code to kill plans in dramatic fashion.

[Invictus84]

Interesting discussion. I can see it's divisive. Is a pattern emerging I wonder that 'skill' can't be scored and those who pursue it generally ignore score? Is the inverse also implied I wonder?

Skill can be scored to a degree.  But what is 'skill'? 

Is it the ability to fight many vs. one in a low speed deck fight, cause multiple overshoots and come out the winner?  Or perhaps it is the ability to understand relative energy states and apply approprate stratagy to come out on top.   Or maybe it is simply the ability to maintain situational  awareness and understand when it is best to attack and when to withdraw? 

The answer is all these are skills, but which are 'valued skills' depend entirely on each player's viewpoints and experence.  HTC can attempt to drive certain behaviors and the perference of certain 'skills' over others through rules or scoring, but in the end it will make no real difference.  AH is an open game, and every player will play it in such a way as to derive the most satisfaction from it.