Risk Aversion Rewared

[nrshida]

I'd like to opt out of rank. But keep the other stuff for me to look at. Wishlist the opt out Shida, like I need to move a CV, 109T isn't in AcesHigh anyway 

Me too. I'd first have to make a wish that the Wishlist worked. I'm sure now it's connected directly to HTC's round filing cabinet on the floor in the corner of the office. 

Hmmmm 109T. Nice, nice.

Skill can be scored to a degree.  But what is 'skill'? 

I had some ruminations regarding this along the lines of how players can presently select a sortie to be scored as attack or fighter. I did mention relative ACM methods could be weighed into the scoring system. Rapidly losing conidence that any cohesive 'Wish' could come out of this discussion though. Quite productive in terms of opinion. Hadn't realised quite a high percentage (of present forum posters at least) also completely ignored the score.

[Vudak]

If you see someone running, it's most of the time not for 'protecting their score' (would really work for bombers only anyway). It's because players just can't stand to get shot down. (Or because they are actually RTBing )

They might not be running to protect their score, but I've noticed that a lot of the guys with better ranks tend to run quite a bit.  It might be an ineffective way for them to ever achieve #1 (if that were their goal), but then again if they don't know how to handle any situation where they aren't flying the same direction as their enemy, why should we expect them to know how best to achieve #1 anyway?

Over the years I've made a lot of films for "identification purposes" and when I go back and check they are invariably people with very low scores.  Often, people who were routinely on the front page.  The argument that you need to be aggressive to be #1 might be true today, but it certainly wasn't in the past, with a sky full of picks.  I won't name names, but some guys who would set the pace for scoring seemed to have no pulse once their advantages were antiquated.

[DmonSlyr]

"Is it the ability to fight many vs. one in a low speed deck fight, cause multiple overshoots and come out the winner?  Or perhaps it is the ability to understand relative energy states and apply approprate stratagy to come out on top.   Or maybe it is simply the ability to maintain situational  awareness and understand when it is best to attack and when to withdraw?"

If you can utilize all of these effectively in the MA, you'd more than likely have a decent fighter rank. It takes all of these skills to understand flight combat and to apply them when the time is right. When a person flies a slower plane, they have to know defensive techniques and counter punch techniques to be able to escape a gang situation. Flying a slower plane in the MA makes these skills much harder to achieve, so it's a good way to challenge yourself and become better at ACM, while typically having a much harder ability to get more kills.

[Lusche]

[...] but then again if they don't know how to handle any situation where they aren't flying the same direction as their enemy, why should we expect them to know how best to achieve #1 anyway?

Because the latter one could be figured out by a simple look at the score categories and the ranking calculation. It takes so much less to figure that out than to learn acm 

[DmonSlyr]

If the top score fighter only flies 262s and tempest to achieve a high score, they will most likey have to run away in any situation where they lose their shooting/E advantage, these planes simply cannot dog fight and have to run.

 Most of P51D and 190D drivers act the same way. That's because they don't know how to fly the plane to the full envelope and use the speed advantage to skirt away from the opponent.


The thing is, most players just don't want to die. They spend 25 minutes flying to a base. They don't want to die quickly. That's one reason why I think having closer bases would solve so many problems with the fun level of AH. Closer bases means more furballing, less time to get alt, more people willing to die quickly, and more action to quickly get involved in. Most of the time, If I have to fly 30 miles to a base for 2 cons, I won't even roll.

[The Fugitive]

Tweaking the score won't change the way these people fly, the ones who fly high and timidly are already ruining their score therefore changing the score will not change the way these particular people fly.

As an example, I never really get above 15K, most of the time I have 2-3 guys trying to gang me. The majority of the people don't understand how to effectively fly for score. Because if they did, they wouldn't be 25k Chery pickers. They would be inside the furball getting 3-4 quick kills. The players that acruslly get into 1v1 and 1v2 fights and win, are better rankers than players who sit high and pick. Most of the time these players miss their pick shots and don't know how to effectively BnZ. Really and truly, the more aggressive you are, the better score you get, that being said. You still have to know what you are doing.

exactly, but if a "carrot" can be found to make those "pickers" engage more often and maybe longer to get that carrot be it points, perks, or notoriety, it would help add combat to a combat games. The same could be done with the GVers, NOE crowd, base takers, even the strat buffs. If a carrot is found to bring them into more combat it makes the game better.

I don't think you could turn 100% of these people who seem to be afraid to engage do so but if you get a third of them, look at how many more fights you would see.

[Copprhed]

when you get whatever plane you want, and as many of them as you want...what is the problem with getting shot down? It's my belief that it's all about paper egos. If you have rank, etc., on paper others might look and say "ooooh, he's a FPH!" when in reality, he's a runner and a picker who whines when ENY prevents him from flying his late war high advantage plane. This is a major reason why I don't fly anymore. As most of you who know me saw, my main ride was the 110G2 which I STALL FOUGHT. I lost a lot, but I also killed a lot, and my wins meant a hell of a lot more than those who won in the Spits, 51s, Doras, etc. The same goes for those pilots who fly Mosquitoes, P-40s, C202s and the early 109s. Why? because is requires skill to kill in those planes. It takes knowledge of ACM, and knowledge of opponents and their planes to win. THAT is what this game should be about, and it's THOSE pilots who should get the kudos, anyone can get kills and run away, it's proven by some of the worst pilots here. It's people like Shida, and Dolby and Latrobe who made this game fun for me, and frankly it's been ruined by the numb-n*ts like Skyyr and those who fly/flew like him and still do, and still believe they are something special in the game. If there were more like Shida still playing, I'd have stayed.

[Lusche]

I am a survivalist. A runner. An alt monkey.

I have the desire to get kills. I have the desire to complete my mission, which is when flying fighters, mostly protecting my bases & installations from enemy bombers. I very much dislike getting shot down, but that has nothing to do with score at all. Furball like action quickly exhausts me at my age, and pure furballing/knife fighting all the time is immensely boring to me. I need the fake 'purpose' of helping my current side. I'm not here to become the best dogfighter ever.

That's what shaping my way to fly, not score, not rank. That's why I climb to 30k to hunt that bombers, that's why I often ignore/bypass fighters when looking for them or the goon. That's why I try to RTB all the time. Of course, like everyone others I also get greedy, stupid, lacking in SA or just have bad luck at times.

[FLS]

Aces High expresses the economics of everyday decisions. Trying to change other people's preferences works as badly in AH as it does everywhere else.

The attractive targets get most of the action. Human nature.

[DmonSlyr]

when you get whatever plane you want, and as many of them as you want...what is the problem with getting shot down? It's my belief that it's all about paper egos. If you have rank, etc., on paper others might look and say "ooooh, he's a FPH!" when in reality, he's a runner and a picker who whines when ENY prevents him from flying his late war high advantage plane. This is a major reason why I don't fly anymore. As most of you who know me saw, my main ride was the 110G2 which I STALL FOUGHT. I lost a lot, but I also killed a lot, and my wins meant a hell of a lot more than those who won in the Spits, 51s, Doras, etc. The same goes for those pilots who fly Mosquitoes, P-40s, C202s and the early 109s. Why? because is requires skill to kill in those planes. It takes knowledge of ACM, and knowledge of opponents and their planes to win. THAT is what this game should be about, and it's THOSE pilots who should get the kudos, anyone can get kills and run away, it's proven by some of the worst pilots here. It's people like Shida, and Dolby and Latrobe who made this game fun for me, and frankly it's been ruined by the numb-n*ts like Skyyr and those who fly/flew like him and still do, and still believe they are something special in the game. If there were more like Shida still playing, I'd have stayed.

I think it all comes down to the amount of time you want to spend. If you want to fly 15 minutes to a base and get the necessary alt. Only to die instantly, people are going find less enjoyment. If people only spent 3-5 minutes getting to a fight. Dying wouldn't be as time consuming. Which means it wouldn't be as strenuous rolling and taking a big amount of time just to get into a fair position. This means more people would stay and fight and the fights would be bigger.

There will always be alt monkeys and nuisances, but a shorter base distance would create more actionable fights in a less amount of time.

[Invictus84]

"Is it the ability to fight many vs. one in a low speed deck fight, cause multiple overshoots and come out the winner?  Or perhaps it is the ability to understand relative energy states and apply approprate stratagy to come out on top.   Or maybe it is simply the ability to maintain situational  awareness and understand when it is best to attack and when to withdraw?"

If you can utilize all of these effectively in the MA, you'd more than likely have a decent fighter rank. It takes all of these skills to understand flight combat and to apply them when the time is right. When a person flies a slower plane, they have to know defensive techniques and counter punch techniques to be able to escape a gang situation. Flying a slower plane in the MA makes these skills much harder to achieve, so it's a good way to challenge yourself and become better at ACM, while typically having a much harder ability to get more kills.

Agreed on all counts, but that isn't my point.  My point is some (most?) pilots do not have the complete set of skills and either play to their strengths or (more rarely, IMO) challenge themselves by flying a style counter to those strengths.  It can also be argued some just don't really care and play for fun.

Aces High expresses the economics of everyday decisions. Trying to change other people's preferences works as badly in AH as it does everywhere else.

The attractive targets get most of the action. Human nature.

Well put.  o7

[nrshida]

I am a survivalist. A runner. An alt monkey.

And that's completely fine Lusche. I sometimes scrape my wingtips along the water in the MA and fly through enemy hangars for fun. It's all normal and good variety I think.

This thread wasn't about changing player's behaviour to suit one faction or another. Mostly I felt let down by a scoring system (when pushed to examine it) which I'm forced to conclude must be ignored, since I wouldn't choose to change my activities just for that. Was just speculating if it could be made more sophisticated and wondering if that would alter gameplay overall. I think it brings up a division. Some people are more quantitive and some more qualitative. Naturally a sliding spectrum.

Often get a knee-jerk response to these kind of topics. Do what you want. BnZ all day long (certainly if you want to maximize win to lose). Ho, gang, whatever. This thread wasn't a whine or rhetoric. I've been here long enough to understand the futility of that.

As most of you who know me saw, my main ride was the 110G2 which I STALL FOUGHT. I lost a lot, but I also killed a lot, and my wins meant a hell of a lot more than those who won in the Spits, 51s, Doras, etc. The same goes for those pilots who fly Mosquitoes, P-40s, C202s and the early 109s. Why? because is requires skill to kill in those planes.

Well said. And more importantly it also requires you to accept that your ability to compete in those planes has a firm upper limit and you are going to get shot down a lot by those whos rides and tactics can easily exceed that limit. I respect those players too. Like Tracerfi (off the top of my head) who'd wade into four or five in a 410. Either that or he was mental, could always be that. F77 flying sortie after sortie in his Mossie against hordes of Spixteens and Corsairs in the DA. That Hurricane Mark I pilot in The Few who flew it because his grandfather was a crew chief in The Big Show. Dolby in his E-4 and Latrobe in the F4.

It's people like Shida, and Dolby and Latrobe who made this game fun for me,

You have to say this tonight brah, I've just literally cancelled my account. I'm playing Frank Sinatra over here!


  my friend.

[GrandpaChaps]

I may regret this, but I will weigh in here.  My opinion is probably low and of little value BUT.....

Over the years, I have encountered many "HO" experiences.  I will admit there have been several where I did not make any effort to divert... even when it was too late.  However, in recent years, I have found it more fun to to high or low in an effort to try and make A2A combat more fun and worthwhile.  HOWEVER, I have seen where, due to no fault of the other player, I haven't gotten the message "so-and-so has collided with you" even when I've tried to go high or low before we got too close.

I almost have to assume that if you go into a H2H situation that a HO collision is inevitable, and its a gamble and toss up as to "who" will be at "fault".

Too many times I've seen HO collisions with myself where the aircraft coming at me seemed not even to be close to impact but off to one side or another.  I've kind of assumed it is just part of the game...

So, if, by chance, you BOTH turn HO, I would suggest that both parties are at fault.  I understand the game doesn't score it that way, but I already assume that  premise.  If someone turns into you and you are not turning, they are going to ram you (front or rear), that's a whole different story.

Again, my opinion may have little weight in this respect, but this is how I kind of view it.

Remember, this is a game, not real life.  In a game, you crash or land only to go again.  Live and let live, let the proctors of the game decide blame and dish out any consequences.  It does no one any good to shout, hound, berate or become enraged at someone else's mistake or intentional "misguided" intentions.  Leave it to someone else, continue to be the better person with your head held high and enjoy the game. Its a game, nothing else.

[The Fugitive]

I may regret this, but I will weigh in here.  My opinion is probably low and of little value BUT.....

Over the years, I have encountered many "HO" experiences.  I will admit there have been several where I did not make any effort to divert... even when it was too late.  However, in recent years, I have found it more fun to to high or low in an effort to try and make A2A combat more fun and worthwhile.  HOWEVER, I have seen where, due to no fault of the other player, I haven't gotten the message "so-and-so has collided with you" even when I've tried to go high or low before we got too close.

I almost have to assume that if you go into a H2H situation that a HO collision is inevitable, and its a gamble and toss up as to "who" will be at "fault".

Too many times I've seen HO collisions with myself where the aircraft coming at me seemed not even to be close to impact but off to one side or another.  I've kind of assumed it is just part of the game...

So, if, by chance, you BOTH turn HO, I would suggest that both parties are at fault.  I understand the game doesn't score it that way, but I already assume that  premise.  If someone turns into you and you are not turning, they are going to ram you (front or rear), that's a whole different story.

Again, my opinion may have little weight in this respect, but this is how I kind of view it.

Remember, this is a game, not real life.  In a game, you crash or land only to go again.  Live and let live, let the proctors of the game decide blame and dish out any consequences.  It does no one any good to shout, hound, berate or become enraged at someone else's mistake or intentional "misguided" intentions.  Leave it to someone else, continue to be the better person with your head held high and enjoy the game. Its a game, nothing else.

Due to internet lag what you see and what the other sees could be very different. If they set it as you suggest a guy could fly by you at what seem to you a plane width away, and you find your self in the tower. Collisions are avoidable, it is completely up to you. Avoid it and you have no collision.

Below is two films laid on top of each other, from your view you see the plane way out back bouncing around and then you end up in the tower. Fair? I don't think so.

[Invictus84]

And that's completely fine Lusche. I sometimes scrape my wingtips along the water in the MA and fly through enemy hangars for fun. It's all normal and good variety I think.

This thread wasn't about changing player's behaviour to suit one faction or another. Mostly I felt let down by a scoring system (when pushed to examine it) which I'm forced to conclude must be ignored, since I wouldn't choose to change my activities just for that. Was just speculating if it could be made more sophisticated and wondering if that would alter gameplay overall. I think it brings up a division. Some people are more quantitive and some more qualitative. Naturally a sliding spectrum.

Often get a knee-jerk response to these kind of topics. Do what you want. BnZ all day long (certainly if you want to maximize win to lose). Ho, gang, whatever. This thread wasn't a whine or rhetoric. I've been here long enough to understand the futility of that.


Well said. And more importantly it also requires you to accept that your ability to compete in those planes has a firm upper limit and you are going to get shot down a lot by those whos rides and tactics can easily exceed that limit. I respect those players too. Like Tracerfi (off the top of my head) who'd wade into four or five in a 410. Either that or he was mental, could always be that. F77 flying sortie after sortie in his Mossie against hordes of Spixteens and Corsairs in the DA. That Hurricane Mark I pilot in The Few who flew it because his grandfather was a crew chief in The Big Show. Dolby in his E-4 and Latrobe in the F4.


You have to say this tonight brah, I've just literally cancelled my account. I'm playing Frank Sinatra over here!


  my friend.

And here I thought I was the only idiot who wades into multiple-on-1 fights in a 410.   

For the record, I didn't take your post as a whine or anything of the sort.  But I did think you were suggesting scoring system changes would change player behavior.  My bad and very sorry to hear you quit.  I hope it is not permanent and you just need a break.