Please dial down the puff ack and manned ack accuracy

[DmonSlyr]

I guess I'm missing the problem.  If you've had an amazing sortie, why would you care whether it ended with an ack shot or a landing?

- oldman

2 reasons,

I actually like landing my sorties especially with 3+ kills.

I hate dying to cheap antics from lazy game play.

Keep in mind I've died about 20 more sorties this month than landed, so I don't want to hear it.

[bustr]

And that makes you any more special than the rest of us who get fragged just like you do under the same conditions?

[DmonSlyr]

And that makes you any more special than the rest of us who get fragged just like you do under the same conditions?

Not what I was implying. I think about everyone and gameplay when I write wish list posts.

 I'd rather shoot my enemy out of the air than have my own ack kill him before me..  does that make sense?

I'm seriously not denying that it's part of the game or part of war or thats it's not unforgiving. I just don't want it to be a habbit for people to get easy kills by getting in a manned ack. I'd rather people take off and experience air combat than cheap out by getting into a manned ack. If you make it too easy for people to ruin others sorties by a manned gun, people are going to get fed up for wasting that much time getting there.

[Bushmills]

It's mostly the manned acks I'm talking about. I've shot down a guy, they get into a manned ack. Within seconds he points and shoots at 8K, with me at 7-12K alt, and I instantly go poof.

I think guys should get more credit for a shot like that I mean think about the variables that go into making a shot like that maybe award the guy 2 kills or something thats crazy skill, most of the time i cannot hit at 200 yrds let alone 12k shot.

[bozon]

It is the range finder on the icons that make that kind of shots possible. Show the ranges with lower accuracy like the appear when you are in a plane yourself.

[Ack-Ack]

Not what I was implying. I think about everyone and gameplay when I write wish list posts.

 I'd rather shoot my enemy out of the air than have my own ack kill him before me..  does that make sense?

I'm seriously not denying that it's part of the game or part of war or thats it's not unforgiving. I just don't want it to be a habbit for people to get easy kills by getting in a manned ack. I'd rather people take off and experience air combat than cheap out by getting into a manned ack. If you make it too easy for people to ruin others sorties by a manned gun, people are going to get fed up for wasting that much time getting there.

You say you "think about everyone" but later down in your post, you wish that people play how you want them to play.  I guess you think of everybody only when you want them to play your way.

[The Fugitive]

Not what I was implying. I think about everyone and gameplay when I write wish list posts.

 I'd rather shoot my enemy out of the air than have my own ack kill him before me..  does that make sense?

I'm seriously not denying that it's part of the game or part of war or thats it's not unforgiving. I just don't want it to be a habbit for people to get easy kills by getting in a manned ack. I'd rather people take off and experience air combat than cheap out by getting into a manned ack. If you make it too easy for people to ruin others sorties by a manned gun, people are going to get fed up for wasting that much time getting there.

I don't really think you know all that much about "what people want" in this game.

In the case of a "fighters arena" I think you would be lucky to get 5 percent of the players in there. With the numbers we have thats 7 guys.

When it comes to other players "fighting". I think you'd be lucky to see 35-40 percent of players "ok" with, never mind "look for" fights. Most would rather avoid fights at any cost.

Why they avoid fights? It is because there is an upper 2-3% of the players that are known "sharks" or "killers". When these players are found, players move to the other side of the map to avoid them. They don't want, nor can they even think of fighting those players and so move on.

Now, we both know, practice, practice, and just a bit more practice will bring these players much closer to that top group, but most either dont have the time, or confidence to bother investing the energy to do that practice. They will take MONTHS and MONTHS to earn enough perks to crash their first ME262 because they will NOT step outside that comfort zone and become the target of those upper 2-3%.

It is what it is. If you don't want to get shot down by a ground gun, don't fly near an enemy base, because the odds are very good that the guy you just shot down believes he doesn't stand a chance against you in a plane and so will jump in a gun.

Changing things to "force" a player into a situation they don't want to be in isn't the best way to retain PAYING customers, so you won't see any changes on that front. The only way to effect any change is to take these guys under your wing and teach them to be better. Build their confidence so they will KEEP coming back to try you.

I harp on HOs. I KNOW Hitech isn't going to change how the HO works. Also, i could learn to HO, it is a skill that is learn-able, there are a number of players that count on nothing else. But instead I try to educated the other players in the hope they will NOT go for the joust and instead work to fight it out.

Be that guy, teach other to fight. The more you teach, the more guys you'll have to fight. Don't be like a certain "tanker" that after he killed me and I asked for some tips. He laughed and called me "the enemy" and he said wouldn't teach me anything.  This is a game and the better the opponent is the more fun it is to fight them. Well thats how I look at it. If the guy is going to run to an ack gun, why give him a target?

[DmonSlyr]

It is the range finder on the icons that make that kind of shots possible. Show the ranges with lower accuracy like the appear when you are in a plane yourself.

That's a really great point! I think if you could eliminate plane range it would make it more realistic and challenging.

You say you "think about everyone" but later down in your post, you wish that people play how you want them to play.  I guess you think of everybody only when you want them to play your way.

I must have forgot what kind of game we are playing here. I figured "most" people played this game so they could experience air combat. Or almost soo challenging that they get in planes or tanks instead.  Manned guns are lazy and eliminate interaction. I just think they should be harder and more challenging, that's all.

 

I don't really think you know all that much about "what people want" in this game.

In the case of a "fighters arena" I think you would be lucky to get 5 percent of the players in there. With the numbers we have thats 7 guys.

When it comes to other players "fighting". I think you'd be lucky to see 35-40 percent of players "ok" with, never mind "look for" fights. Most would rather avoid fights at any cost.

Why they avoid fights? It is because there is an upper 2-3% of the players that are known "sharks" or "killers". When these players are found, players move to the other side of the map to avoid them. They don't want, nor can they even think of fighting those players and so move on.

Now, we both know, practice, practice, and just a bit more practice will bring these players much closer to that top group, but most either dont have the time, or confidence to bother investing the energy to do that practice. They will take MONTHS and MONTHS to earn enough perks to crash their first ME262 because they will NOT step outside that comfort zone and become the target of those upper 2-3%.

It is what it is. If you don't want to get shot down by a ground gun, don't fly near an enemy base, because the odds are very good that the guy you just shot down believes he doesn't stand a chance against you in a plane and so will jump in a gun.

Changing things to "force" a player into a situation they don't want to be in isn't the best way to retain PAYING customers, so you won't see any changes on that front. The only way to effect any change is to take these guys under your wing and teach them to be better. Build their confidence so they will KEEP coming back to try you.

I harp on HOs. I KNOW Hitech isn't going to change how the HO works. Also, i could learn to HO, it is a skill that is learn-able, there are a number of players that count on nothing else. But instead I try to educated the other players in the hope they will NOT go for the joust and instead work to fight it out.

Be that guy, teach other to fight. The more you teach, the more guys you'll have to fight. Don't be like a certain "tanker" that after he killed me and I asked for some tips. He laughed and called me "the enemy" and he said wouldn't teach me anything.  This is a game and the better the opponent is the more fun it is to fight them. Well thats how I look at it. If the guy is going to run to an ack gun, why give him a target?

A HO is an action by a player, it cannot be modelled. A manned ack can be manipulated to be harder to shoot.

Do players really want to be sniped out of the air unfairly? Is that really what players join this game for? I thought interaction with online players was the point?

If hiding in manned acks is the direction this game wants to go, because people are too afraid of dying to better players, than its just not going to be an exciting game anymore.

[The Fugitive]

That's a really great point! I think if you could eliminate plane range it would make it more realistic and challenging.

I must have forgot what kind of game we are playing here. I figured "most" people played this game so they could experience air combat. Or almost soo challenging that they get in planes or tanks instead.  Manned guns are lazy and eliminate interaction. I just think they should be harder and more challenging, that's all.

 

A HO is an action by a player, it cannot be modelled. A manned ack can be manipulated to be harder to shoot.

Do players really want to be sniped out of the air unfairly? Is that really what players join this game for? I thought interaction with online players was the point?

If hiding in manned acks is the direction this game wants to go, because people are too afraid of dying to better players, than its just not going to be an exciting game anymore.

That is certainly the way it is going. What you think of as good fights/furballs/action is just a drop in the bucket as to what we had 10 years ago. On top of that, 10 years ago we probably had the same numbers as the game was new, but we had far more fights because that is what the game was.

Since then it has evolved due to players changing, and the things HTC has added to the game. SOme things were added that added more things to do, to bring in more players, but those same things turned off other players and caused them to leave.

Ack guns are good, can be aimed and you don't get a "death" added to your score if you get shot down in one. On the other hand, while you dont get a kill toward rank, you can tick off players that you are sure you couldn't beat anyway. Same reason a lot of players HO. They know they cant fly as well as many other players so they HO and hope for the best.

Again, it is what it is. Make the best of what is available. If you cant, you can retired like so many other that didn't like the changes.

[JunkyII]

Again, it is what it is. Make the best of what is available. If you cant, you can retired like so many other that didn't like the changes.

This is how games die

[The Fugitive]

This is how games die

Agreed, but HTC has always said they are not in this to try and keep the old, long time players.  Subscriptions have a certain life span and most of 7s old timers have gone way past them.

The idea is to add more and more options to draw in more and more new players, not to keep the old players. As long as the influx stays ahead of the outgoing its a good business plan.

[JunkyII]

Agreed, but HTC has always said they are not in this to try and keep the old, long time players.  Subscriptions have a certain life span and most of 7s old timers have gone way past them.

The idea is to add more and more options to draw in more and more new players, not to keep the old players. As long as the influx stays ahead of the outgoing its a good business plan.

Look at games similar to Aces High...All of them have one thing in common that makes them have an edge...constant action. Aces High itself provides the tools to have constant action but there are ways for people more interested in winning the map to just avoid action completely, making it harder or nearly impossible for others to find action...so when Violator posts ideas like this I tend to agree...people give me crap about complaining about M3 resupply(haven't played much lately so I don't know if it's still an issue in 3 as it was in 2 that's why I haven't brought it up yet for 3) but that and man guns were some of the tools to avoid combat in the air.....so the main crowd that's leaving is the "Sharks" aka Furballers....How the heck is it that I look at the active roster...let's just say top 50 fighters and I'm like yea most of them I can beat in a pre set 1v1 any plane with 100% confidence but 4-5 years ago I looked at the roster and would be like yea there's some who have gamed the fighter rank but most are just good in fighters and I'm not as good as them...I haven't got better...if anything I'm worse because I don't spend time in the DA 1v1ing like I used to. The player base that's leaving is the fighter jocks....why the heck does everyone think they are the most vocal??? Side switch rule....hurt the spies of the win the war crowd...hurt the fighter guys just looking to furball....Strat update....made strategic gameplay more deverse opening up bether targets for bombers...also made it possible for people to up m3's and resupply instead of upping fighters to intercept fighters...puffy at large fields...made large fields more strategic (which they were already defended enough if you ask me) ...made it so furballers have 1 more thing to avoid in game...hell man they park CVs in the middle of furballs to stop them....The V tards literally said to me before "We are bombing the Fighter hangars so you guys stop furballing and help us take bases"....You can't make this crap up....The notion that the map is more important then the fight is what is killing this game....To be honest I think Man gun sorties should not have their own rankING system I think they should fall into GV ranks....yea that's not going to completely stop it but it will slow some down to a man gun....same thing with easy high eny rides...drop it's eny lower and it won't get used as much because you get less perks from it.

[The Fugitive]

Look at games similar to Aces High...All of them have one thing in common that makes them have an edge...constant action. Aces High itself provides the tools to have constant action but there are ways for people more interested in winning the map to just avoid action completely, making it harder or nearly impossible for others to find action...so when Violator posts ideas like this I tend to agree...people give me crap about complaining about M3 resupply(haven't played much lately so I don't know if it's still an issue in 3 as it was in 2 that's why I haven't brought it up yet for 3) but that and man guns were some of the tools to avoid combat in the air.....so the main crowd that's leaving is the "Sharks" aka Furballers....How the heck is it that I look at the active roster...let's just say top 50 fighters and I'm like yea most of them I can beat in a pre set 1v1 any plane with 100% confidence but 4-5 years ago I looked at the roster and would be like yea there's some who have gamed the fighter rank but most are just good in fighters and I'm not as good as them...I haven't got better...if anything I'm worse because I don't spend time in the DA 1v1ing like I used to. The player base that's leaving is the fighter jocks....why the heck does everyone think they are the most vocal??? Side switch rule....hurt the spies of the win the war crowd...hurt the fighter guys just looking to furball....Strat update....made strategic gameplay more deverse opening up bether targets for bombers...also made it possible for people to up m3's and resupply instead of upping fighters to intercept fighters...puffy at large fields...made large fields more strategic (which they were already defended enough if you ask me) ...made it so furballers have 1 more thing to avoid in game...hell man they park CVs in the middle of furballs to stop them....The V tards literally said to me before "We are bombing the Fighter hangars so you guys stop furballing and help us take bases"....You can't make this crap up....The notion that the map is more important then the fight is what is killing this game....To be honest I think Man gun sorties should not have their own rankING system I think they should fall into GV ranks....yea that's not going to completely stop it but it will slow some down to a man gun....same thing with easy high eny rides...drop it's eny lower and it won't get used as much because you get less perks from it.

I agree with you 100%, but HTC isn't going to "force" anyone to play a certain way. My guess is that HTC doesn't believe that a more "fighter" type game style isn't going to bring in enough numbers to stay ahead of the "out going" curve of subscriptions.

Even if 30% of the player base is all about fighters that still leaves 70% of the player base that isn't. Which portion of PAYING customers do you THINK they are going to cater to?

You have to remember, to us this is our favorite game, our hobby, our "hang out". To HTC this is a business and while they may play it and have fun with it too, their number one concern must be for the bottom line. After all if they don't come out ahead, they cant play either.

[DmonSlyr]

I agree with you 100%, but HTC isn't going to "force" anyone to play a certain way. My guess is that HTC doesn't believe that a more "fighter" type game style isn't going to bring in enough numbers to stay ahead of the "out going" curve of subscriptions.

Even if 30% of the player base is all about fighters that still leaves 70% of the player base that isn't. Which portion of PAYING customers do you THINK they are going to cater to?

You have to remember, to us this is our favorite game, our hobby, our "hang out". To HTC this is a business and while they may play it and have fun with it too, their number one concern must be for the bottom line. After all if they don't come out ahead, they cant play either.

Are there any stats to prove that fighters are not the most popular in the game anymore? I don't know that what you arre implying is actually the best idea.

I also think that changing the game toward a more tank and ground oriented game, won't help the #s because there  is too much other competition for that type of gameplay. I'm not saying Hitech shouldn't work to make it as good as it could be. But shutting out the players that once made the furballs vast and the aircombat exciting, will only lead to more players logging off or canceling in boredom.

I agree with a lot of what Junky wrote except the score part. I don't think field gun scores really matter. I also do think the map does make a big difference. Other than that, I think he made some great points regarding that the fighter aspect to the game has not been "helped" and the maps have not been modeled to create better fights. That's just my opinion. I like some of the current maps, but I'd really like to see more condensed maps being created so that flying times are a bit shorter between bases. It would make a HUGE difference.

I also agree with the whole M3 thing. It's just a tease when you are trying to capture a base and it's a non stop cat and mouse game with no real combat action involved.

The more you see people racing to manned guns and getting cheap kills, or racing to hop in tanks instead of fighters, the game just staggers and the fights slowly die. Again, this happens because people don't see enemy tanks on the map, which causes the perception that there are no fights on the map. That is not what I want to see. I think Hitech has a great model and game for air combat. I don't want that part to diminish. Brining back the fighter aspect to the game would bring a lot of customers back and bring new players who just enjoy open map air combat. It would make the fights look bigger on the maps thus bringing more and more people to the fight, regardless of the type of game play they want to utilize. I've always thought tanks should be used as support for the fighters and not vice versa, if the game changes to a fighters supporting tank type game, I don't think the #s will increase and I think you will continue to see staggering fights.

[JunkyII]

I agree with you 100%, but HTC isn't going to "force" anyone to play a certain way. My guess is that HTC doesn't believe that a more "fighter" type game style isn't going to bring in enough numbers to stay ahead of the "out going" curve of subscriptions.

Even if 30% of the player base is all about fighters that still leaves 70% of the player base that isn't. Which portion of PAYING customers do you THINK they are going to cater to?

You have to remember, to us this is our favorite game, our hobby, our "hang out". To HTC this is a business and while they may play it and have fun with it too, their number one concern must be for the bottom line. After all if they don't come out ahead, they cant play either.

My argument would be look at numbers in the MA long ago vs where they are today...there were more furballers and more profit coming in from what we could tell by general late war numbers. From the people I personally interact with, it's the air combat guys who have been leaving from the game when they used to have way more then just 30% of the player base. I understand your logic but is Aces High really going to compete with world of tanks for a tank simulator? No the maps are too big to add that sort of detail to the ground game. They can however compete with War Thunder because of the flight model and IL2 because they overall WW2 combat simulation is better(they may have a more real flight model but for a lot that's not the only thing they are looking for....that's based off what I was told from people playing il2, never tested it's flight model because I'm not sure Id run that game well.)