Tracer smoke moves wrong way in turn fight

[Dobs]

See attached picture.

And along these lines...how many rounds are between tracers? Tracer every 15th round?

Also do the guns on the 38 fire, 1,2, 3, 4, cannon, 1,2,3,4, cannon?  It appears they do with some sort of ms delay in them...

If they do, maybe that needs to be changed to 1/2, 3/4 for the MGs...firing only 1 gun at a time is a bit of neutering vs a maneuvering target.

[hitech]

Tracers trails are correct.
Because your nose is pointed above your flight trajectory when pulling G's (I.E AOA) your shooting to the inside of your circle and as the plane goes around the circle the tracer trail goes above you and then you fly back threw it.

Most tracers are set 4 to 1 I.E. 1 tracer round in 5 bullets.

Cannons and mg's are synced separately.


HiTech

[Dobs]

Think I'm going to have disagree with that... I know what you are saying...AOA is difference between Velocity vector and nose

What you are saying is velocity vector is different than sight line (pipper) in the game? 

If I am turning, and I have 10 degrees of AOA, am I mushing through the air, or am I "carving cleanly"....if I am mushing then I agree. If I'm carving, then I disagree...its like the guns are upcanted quite abit.

I tried to diagram difference in views of the flight path....mine is firing down the velocity vector...yours has quite a difference between velocity vector and the nose.  See attachment...

Hard to find WWII footage where they are shooting with tracers under G...most are bounces and they are at 1 G.

Here is a clip  (2:23 mark if clip doesn't take you to it).
 

Shows traces visible at a bomber...but he is shooting under G.

In this clip you can see tracer smoke from the P-51 under G as well...
Hope the time reference urls work (if not it is 2:57 mark).

[FLS]

Try AH film. Fly a tight turn shooting. Use trails and the F5 view looking down on your turn circle.

[Dobs]

Sorry forgot to link it... film file I used to do what you just described.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYRERUdE14Uk5JakU/view?usp=sharing

[FLS]

I don't see any abnormal tracer trails on your film.

[Dobs]

Wasn't shooting in the film...

Was looking at flight path and nose relative to flight path.

Here are tracers going above my canopy when I'm in a turn fight...

I'll see if I can get a AHF of one and post as well.

[FLS]

Wasn't shooting in the film...

I noticed that you weren't doing the test I described. It's easier to see the tracer smoke when you shoot.

[hitech]

Simply by definition aoa is exactly the same as mushing

[Dobs]

Here ya go...

Correct title should be:
Tracers appear above the P-38 canopy bow when shooting....
AHF here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYb2RaLXJRSHptWDQ/view?usp=sharing

As seen in the videos, and as seen in this video...


Spit XVI did not have this issue...maybe a simple X, Y, Z issue for tracer origination for 38s.

Dobs

[Dobs]

I'm not sure I want to engage in angle of incidence, angle of attack, and nose vs velocity vector.  See post above....

[FLS]

Fly the test I described in the P-38 and shoot this time. You'll see what Hitech was telling you.

[Dobs]

Fly the test I described in the P-38 and shoot this time. You'll see what Hitech was telling you.

Try watching the last film before you repeat yourself....

[EskimoJoe]

Yeah, that does seem really weird to me. It appears almost as if the smoke trails are originating from above your cockpit. I couldn't tell you about the science behind that, but it really doesn't seem logical to me, even with the explanation of shooting inside your circle and such.

It's either witchcraft, or there is a complicated science behind it that I can't find on youtube and don't have the time to search into actual sources for a graphic to help me out.

[hitech]

This is extremely simple to test it on the ground stationary external view pulled the trigger. Does it come from the corect spot?


Now if you rotate your guns up15 degrees and start rolling ahead,would you see the smoke trail above you?
Hitech