Help requested: TrackIR rear views

[Warty]

I'm trying to get back into AH. I started with red baron, and then a little air warrior with compuserve or something, I don't even remember. Found WBs, played A LOT. Got decent. But life happened. When I came back, AH was a thing, and WBs was a joke. (sad!). But I made a decision to switch to trackIR for views, when I signed up with AH and built a rig for it. I think I've "quit" like 3 times now in the past 5-6 years. One reason is that I never get any good. Which, I know, everyone has that, but here's the kicker... I have never had a decent 6 view my entire time in AH. And you can't be successful in that situation, I don't care how good you are. Not making excuses, I also lost my edge entirely, unrelated to views.

So I tried going back to trusty hat views this week, and unbelievably, my fingers and brain still knew exactly how that worked. That was actually good. I had six views again! Minor annoyance about planes hiding in the thick canopy supports sometimes. Not a big deal. BUT... the only stick I have with an 8 way hat switch was a logitech wingman 3D or something that I don't even remember why I own. At first, I thought that would be good, because I have a simpit setup, and I actually wasn't getting full deflection with my stick (I have a 20 cm extension on it). Good news: full deflection and hat views! Bad news: I'm porpoising all over the place, and can't hit a thing. I did all the tuning I could with the y axis, scaled it for very little movement. But I have big jerky hands I guess, at least with this form-factor of stick.

So... now I'm back to the long stick, because I can be smooth as butter with it. I will take apart simpit so I can get full deflection. But this has 2 4-way hats, no 8 way hat. So I'd really like to get TrackIR working.

My trackIR setup:
- I only use it with AH.
- I have a custom profile loaded, with a deadzone so it's not constantly in motion.
- I have accelerated movement for the "turn your head left or right" axis. Rest of axes are at default.
- I have mapped buttons for TIR center, and for "look forward" (for gunnery).
- I have mapped my head position in the planes I used the most.

What happens in game:
- I see up, down, left, right, etc. no problem.
- When I turn around, I see the center of the back of the seat. I can lean way to the right, tilt my head, etc., move forward/backwards, but basically, I just see seat rest. Every ONCE IN A WHILE, I'll get a view like you would get with a "look backwards" key map (to the side of the headrest, looking backwards). But totally randomly, as far as I can tell. Useless. Can't count on it. 1 in 100 maybe.
- any F4U, F6F, P47, 109, etc.: completely unuseable except as a forward-quadrant engagement plane.

Could I get some online help on this? (before I get frustrated and throw a hissy fit again :-)

(I've heard of a VKB stick that you can get an extension for, and it has 8 way hat switches, but it seems they only make them available to sell 2 days a year or something. If I ever get that, I think I'll go back to hat views. Long-term, I'm hoping that second generation VR headsets will make this problem go away entirely).

[popeye]

Map one of the hat positions to "look back".  In the game select (and hold) that view, then use the arrows and page up/dn keys to optimize the view, then hit F10.  During flight use the hat along with TrackIR to "look back".  You should see the view that you set and be able to look around from there with TIR.  You can map other views to the hat, but it seems adequate to use TIR along with "look forward" and "look back".

[Warty]

I have the rear views the way I want them, it's just that TrackIR doesn't use them when I turn around. So I tried what you wrote (a little) tonight, and it does get the view I want, but then as say I shift from looking back, to looking forward, and then release the "look backwards" button, now I'm facing the opposite way I am facing. Hard to explain that, but using the hard-coded rear view + TrackIR basically flips look forward to look backwards. Is that what you do? and then just deal with the abrupt translation when you need to go back to "normal" views and let go of the back view button?

Just seems weird that we can't make TrackIR rotate your head backwards to use the actual head position you have defined.

[FESS67]

Warty...i have TIR working perfectly.  I would live to help you get it sorted.  I am away for work, back a week Friday....Thursday night USA time.   If i see you on i will spend time with you to get it working..

[FLS]

Just seems weird that we can't make TrackIR rotate your head backwards to use the actual head position you have defined.

When you rotate your head you use the position you defined for the front view.  To use the defined rear view you need to select it. It's easy to look back around the headset, just lean to one side first then press your look back button.

[Randy1]

The trachir software is pretty powerful and useful.  If you select the screen with the 3-d head you can watch those to get your curves set right.

I use very, very steep curves but I use the "Speed" slider to slow it down.  My speed setting is .3 to .4  With these setting I can easily look around the head rest without much leaning.

[popeye]

I have the rear views the way I want them, it's just that TrackIR doesn't use them when I turn around. So I tried what you wrote (a little) tonight, and it does get the view I want, but then as say I shift from looking back, to looking forward, and then release the "look backwards" button, now I'm facing the opposite way I am facing. Hard to explain that, but using the hard-coded rear view + TrackIR basically flips look forward to look backwards. Is that what you do? and then just deal with the abrupt translation when you need to go back to "normal" views and let go of the back view button?

Just seems weird that we can't make TrackIR rotate your head backwards to use the actual head position you have defined.

Yes, I am new to TIR and have used "snap" views for many years, so the abrupt translation from rear to front view is not a problem for me.  I just "center" my view when I switch so I am looking directly forward/back when the view changes.

I think TIR will rotate backwards from the defined head position, but to maximize the front field of view the head position needs to be back against the headrest, so when looking back it obscures the view.  You can look around it from that position but I like the separate rear view better since it is natural for me to switch views when tracking.

(I will confess that I disable TIR and switch back to "snap" views in a furball since that seems to be much better for SA in a crowded sky.  I do use TIR for air-ground because I can keep the ground target in view even when zoomed in.)

[Traveler]

Wow, you really seem to be all over the place, TrackIR or hat switch views, TrackIR or Hat switch?  Pick one and live with it for a year.  I use trackIR and my wingman uses it and several other squad mates as well.  I"ve had TrackIR since it first came out.   When I received it, I opened the box, loaded the software and pluged in the hardware.  I used the default profile that was set up for Aces High by the TrackIR people.  I used in as it was delivered out of the box with no changes to the provided AH profile.  It works fine, in fact better than fine, no issues looking behind any aircraft that I fly.  One issue with trackIR that many people don't pick up on and fail to understand, that the trackIR is very light sensitive.  So if ever I have an issue, I know to look for some random light source.  I play on my desk top in my den and there was a lot of windows but black out shades did the trick.

[popeye]

Wow, you really seem to be all over the place...

Haha, yeah it's true.  I'm trying to get a "sense" of flying with TIR by using it for air-ground.  I tried going TIR cold turkey and died like a dog.   

[FLS]

You can use both together. If you keep your head relatively still while using the hat views you can leave TIR on.

[Oldman731]

I tried going TIR cold turkey and died like a dog.

When I first started using TrackIR I also combined it with the hat switch views.  I found TrackIR to be disorienting and, like you, I was comfortable with the hat switch.  In retrospect, that was error; I should have gone cold turkey from the beginning.  Took me about six months (yes, much longer than I expected), but there's no doubt that TrackIR is a far better tool than the hat switch.  I didn't even realize that TrackIR has a default scale for AH2 (which works equally well for AH3), but that's what I use now.

And hey, dying like a dog is something I do well, regardless of view method.

- oldman

[SIK1]

Warty make sure you have "trackir object relative move" checked. You'll find it under VR in Preferences, on the clipboard.

 
Sik

[1stpar3]

Straight-up, TIR is all I use ingame. Furball, air to ground and vehicles. Its all in how you set up your "axis" curves. As far as looking around the head rest, thats easy. Map your "x" curves at a very fast curve, mine looks more like a V than a curve. I lean about 4 inches real and get max ingame lean. Hardest thing for me was getting use to the lean left and look left and view was over right shoulder. You can minimize that with the Trueview checked I have heard. I am just use to it now. I run every axis EXCEPT roll. My curves are set fairly fast with deadzones in Pitch and Yaw, that way when i shoot around the nose I dont need a look forward key mapped. I would suggest opening the game offline and launching to any runway,once there just track the drones. The camera in the TIR program doesnt mimic the in game behaviors quite the same as in game you are bound to 180 degrees and the cockpit canopy. Pick one axis at a time and just dial it in. You can set the curves up for just about any thing you need. I think most folk just dont play around with their curves enough. You can at any point on the curves faster or slower or even to a mid curve deadband.  So if you want a quick look 90d but a slower 90 to 180 or what ever. I will suggest 1 big tip!! If you dont hace the Track Clip Pro that mounts to a head set, I suggest getting one ordered! The hat clip works ok, but Track clip is 100% more accurate and doesnt seem to be as affected by environmental issues like lighting. Every one is diffrent, but in my opinion if you dont like it you just didnt play with it enough I can only think of one player that didnt love TIR,but he was a long time player too use to hat switches. I never had that problem hated that. I have numbness in my hands and just couldnt get it down. TIR opened up the world of flight sims for me and have passed it on to several friends and even a KNIT or 2 May fly to regret that

[popeye]

Playing with TIR curves and I notice that the in-game pitch doesn't seem to follow the TIR curve.  I can set TIR pitch to go past 90 degrees (straight up), but the in-game view will not even get to 90.  Is pitch limited by the game?

[DaddyAce]

Sorry popeye, can't answer your question.

But did want to thank you guys for your input on this topic.  I'm new to Trackir, and found this discussion very helpful.  My preliminary impression was that it was an useful adjunct to basic views, but after messing with my curves as per your suggestions, and finding it much more useful. 

One thing I noticed is that when I set it up in a pony, the same setup didn't seem quite so useful (although still greatly improved) in a P-38.  Does anyone set up
different profiles for different rides?

Thanks again guys!