Author Topic: Maximum Effort Feedback  (Read 6981 times)

Offline Dawger

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2016, 03:37:03 PM »
FSO game clock start times are usually published in the writeup at ahevents if not in the frame objectives.







Thats my point. Missions set to trigger on the published schedule get flight not enabled errors.

I will go back to adding a minute

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2016, 05:07:01 PM »
Thats my point. Missions set to trigger on the published schedule get flight not enabled errors.

I will go back to adding a minute

You can do that, or like Kanth suggested, going to launch on command like the 412th uses. It keeps all the functionality of the Mission Editor and allows people to choose their own skins.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Joker312

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2016, 12:22:50 PM »
November FSO summary....
Total Axis dominance.... Again... :ahand
[/quote]

Maybe I missed something here. I saw our bombers hit 186 almost unmolested. 80 Min's into frame there were 10 axis in game.

"Dominance"? Guess your using a different meaning for the word Puller?

I never fired a shot but I still enjoyed the frame.

For me the recreation of a historic event is reason enough to participate. I really appreciate the effort put in by all that make FSO possible.

As others have said, win or lose doesn't really matter. Attempting to accomplish my assigned task is all I am concerned with.
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2016, 02:19:30 PM »
Allies as a whole did well in frame 3...well executed plan  :salute

I would hope so, they had 30 extra guys.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 02:22:55 PM by Devil 505 »
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2016, 02:30:22 PM »
I would hope so, they had 40 extra guys.
I would agree numbers did seem to favor Allies but my argument is to say the Allies didn't do anything in frame 3 was just arrogance...they executed a plan and the flat out fact it worked well and the AXIS had no counter.
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2016, 03:27:28 PM »
I would hope so, they had 30 extra guys.

Wasn't it a 55/45 set up as per the scenario rules?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 03:29:11 PM by 68ZooM »
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Offline puller

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2016, 03:36:17 PM »
If I were Allied CIC... I would have thrown my fighters which were worth nothing against the minimal Axis fighter presence...

3 frames Allied fighters flew past my small squad...each frame I found the bombers and sent the message to CIC... And engaged them...

Now we did get killed by the embedded escort that was thick...but not before a terrible toll was wrought upon the heavies...

Why didn't y'all actually sweep our fighters...your fighters were worth no points...if any of them made it back without killing at least 1 axis fighter you failed...

I would have had my fighters all over the target area killing everything that moved... U knew where we were...you had multiple ponys that just flew around at 30k doing nothing...they flew over me 3 frames in a row...

November FSO summary....
Total Axis dominance.... Again... :ahand

I would agree numbers did seem to favor Allies but my argument is to say the Allies didn't do anything in frame 3 was just arrogance...they executed a plan and the flat out fact it worked well and the AXIS had no counter.

Where in my original post did I say that the Allies didn't do anything in Frame 3....

I haven't even read a post that said the Allies sucked up Frame 3...

And junky for you to say that the numbers "seemed" to favor the Allies is a gross understatement...being outnumbered by 10 "seems" to sway an outcome....being outnumbered by 30+ "seems" to be an unintended consequence of not always splitting the sides evenly...

And before you "realism" people come at me...I don't give a damn whether I'm outnumbered by 5 or 50...I enjoyed this event and wouldn't like to see it changed any if it were ran in the future...if it was, the only thing I would want changed is killing fighters should be worth something...
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2016, 03:41:46 PM »
Wasn't it a 55/45 set up as per the scenario rules?

Yes, and the 55% side has grossly overpowered the lower side every single frame of every FSO this year that used this split percentage. I'm creating a separate topic on the validity of using the 55/45 split - it does not work.
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Offline puller

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2016, 03:43:59 PM »
November FSO summary....
Total Axis dominance.... Again... :ahand


Maybe I missed something here. I saw our bombers hit 186 almost unmolested. 80 Min's into frame there were 10 axis in game.

"Dominance"? Guess your using a different meaning for the word Puller?

I never fired a shot but I still enjoyed the frame.

For me the recreation of a historic event is reason enough to participate. I really appreciate the effort put in by all that make FSO possible.

As others have said, win or lose doesn't really matter. Attempting to accomplish my assigned task is all I am concerned with.

The bombers that hit 186 were far from unmolested...maybe you meant 183...because I found the bombers and summarily died attacking them over a sector away from 186

What do you want me to say for you Joker?

November FSO Summary...
Allies are the bestest!!!!  And any time that one of the normally Axis squads say anything, I Joker, will always run my mouth at them and call them out every month, every thread and I mean every thread...
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Offline puller

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2016, 03:46:55 PM »
Yes, and the 55% side has grossly overpowered the lower side every single frame of every FSO this year that used this split percentage. I'm creating a separate topic on the validity of using the 55/45 split - it does not work.


...being outnumbered by 10 "seems" to sway an outcome....being outnumbered by 30+ "seems" to be an unintended consequence of not always splitting the sides evenly...



There ya go...

unintended but still detrimental...

Way to go Devil  :aok
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2016, 04:00:54 PM »
My feedback on this thread consists of two things:

1) Since the introduction of the new scoring system, I have definitely seen more enemy fighters focused on simply avoiding/evading fighter vs. fighter combat.  Instead they simply bore in on the bombers, even to the point of ignoring enemy fighters on their six who are shooting at them.  The scoring system essentially allows for one side to throw all their fighters away, as long as they kill some bombers.  I feel a scoring system like this just encourages suicidal play and takes away incentives for fighter combat and surviving the whole frame.  My suggestion would be to re-assess this.  For me, that really detracts from some of the immersion factor of FSO.

2) I think Puller has made it abundantly clear in this thread that he should be an Allied CinC next time this scenario is run.  This way he can show us all how easy it is to force enemy fighters down from the alt-cap and keep the bombers from being attacked.  My only request is that I get to fly Axis that frame.

Oh, and he should probably do a Google search for "Ellipsis Usage" as well.

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« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 04:02:33 PM by Kingpin »
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2016, 04:20:30 PM »
I wanted to roll back around on this thread and say that this was intended to be constructive criticism.  Thank you to those who have added valid points to this post.  Especially the ones about start times and the numbers splits between the two sides.  Both talking points deserve their own discussion for sure!  :aok
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2016, 04:22:45 PM »


2) I think Puller has made it abundantly clear in this thread that he should be an Allied CinC next time this scenario is run.  This way he can show us all how easy it is to force enemy fighters down from the alt-cap and keep the bombers from being attacked.  My only request is that I get to fly Axis that frame.

Oh, and he should probably do a Google search for "Ellipsis Usage" as well.

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Offline Kingpin

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2016, 04:29:26 PM »
Because I generally don't like to criticize unless I offer a solution, here's an idea.  If the CMs decide to keep the scoring-focus on bombers and objects destroyed, how about a rule like this: 

Returning fighters on the attacking side are allowed to carry ords on their second sortie only (say after T+60, to avoid it being abused).

1) This would allow for a second strike, which is usually not possible in heavy bomber scenarios.
2) This would encourage combat all the way to end of the frame that is not just furballing on the deck or vulching one side trying to land.
3) The JABO runs would be relevant to scoring and would therefore be opposed (instead of one side just landing after the heavy bomber run and calling it a night).
4) It opens up another interesting planning element for the both attackers and defenders.
5) There would be a much greater "fog of war" during this second phase of the frame.
6) It would also put a higher emphasis on fighters surviving the first raid, instead one side "throwing it's fighters away".  As an attacker your reward for re-arming is being able to make a second strike, and as a defender your reward for refueling and relaunching is knowing there will be more targets coming in a second battle.

Bear in mind, this is just a brainstorm, and I haven't thought through all the possible unexpected consequences.  Feel free to shoot this idea full of holes.

<S>
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« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 07:23:56 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
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Offline puller

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Re: Maximum Effort Feedback
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2016, 05:57:47 PM »
If my thought extending .... Annoy you bad enough for you to treat me like I'm some sort of *""'®\®©™° idiot by all means put me on your ignore list kingpin....I've never had any real interaction with you and must admit from the few times you have addressed me to be all negative... I can also promise you that your thoughts, feelings, and future opinions that I encounter will be considered as worthless to me as midway's drivel used to be on 200... :aok I'm sure you don't care...but I feel better about getting that out there  :aok

Also I stated what I encountered this month and said how I would have approached being the Allied CIC... Never did I say or infer I was some sort of expert...I never said it would have worked either...I said "if I was...I would have thrown my fighters that were worth no points at the minimal Axis forces"...so by default anything I say is picked apart and ridiculed by the same people... who must have my squad and I living in their heads rent free...as I see way more outlandish and outright tripe on here that gets nary a word...

So...by all means treat me like I'm an idiot...discount what I say...you aren't going to shut me up... Or silence my opinions....

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