For the upcoming Bf110G revisions...

[Squire]

Folks can play IL-2 1946 to get their "planes that hardly flew" fix...Do335s, 4 cannon Spits, Ki-84s with 30mm cannon ect...

Aces High does not now and should not in the future include ord options that were rare or just one-offs.

...and so far you have not provided any evidence of the usage levels of the 37mm on the Bf 110. Just a few photos and the unit that flew them.

[PR3D4TOR]

Aces High does not now and should not in the future include ord options that were rare or just one-offs.

Yes it sure does include that now, and has done so for a decade or more. We have the 5 cm BK for the 410 (just as rare or even more so than the 3.7 BK for the 110). We have the 20 mm cannon armed F4U-1C. We have the Ta 152. We have 75 mm B-25s. We have 45 mm armed Sturmoviks. We have B20 armed La-7s. If we include bomb loadouts we have a lot more rare options like the 1.8 ton Stuka bomb. This list is not exhaustive mind you, just off the top of my head.

[Devil 505]

Yes it sure does include that now, and has done so for a decade or more. We have the 5 cm BK for the 410 (just as rare or even more so than the 3.7 BK for the 110). We have the 20 mm cannon armed F4U-1C. We have the Ta 152. We have 75 mm B-25s. We have 45 mm armed Sturmoviks. We have B20 armed La-7s. If we include bomb loadouts we have a lot more rare options like the 1.8 ton Stuka bomb. This list is not exhaustive mind you, just off the top of my head.

1. 200 F4U-1C's were built.
2. TA 152 used by 2 squadrons, Jg 11 and Jg 301 - a mix of C-1 and H-1 types
3. B25H with 75mm cannon used extensively and successfully in the Pacific by both the USAAF and US Navy (designated PBJ-1H)
4. Il-2 in AH only has 23mm or 37mm options.

[PR3D4TOR]

Typo. Should be 37 mm. 200 planes is very rare. Yes the Ta 152 served with two squadrons. The 110G-2/R1, R3, R5 with the 3.7 BK served with at least two squadrons in two different fighter wings, both on the Russian front and in the west.

[Denniss]

For the 110G it was likely an ETC 501 rack capable of carrying either a 500kg bomb (depending on mounting location, limited to 250kg), or a drop tank of varying size. These became de facto standard from mid 1943 onward.

See image in reply #8 which clearly shows DTs on a special rack/carrier with the twin ETC50 further outboard

[Serenity]

Typo. Should be 37 mm. 200 planes is very rare. Yes the Ta 152 served with two squadrons.

Uncommon, sure, but operationally deployed is very different from frontline testing.

The 110G-2/R1, R3, R5 with the 3.7 BK served with at least two squadrons in two different fighter wings, both on the Russian front and in the west.

Except that all of the sources cited are saying these were simply field tests that proved unsuccessful and the program was not adopted. Don't get me wrong, I would love more reasons to fly the 110, but from what I'm seeing, they were test-beds and not operationally deployed.

[Krusty]

Just to refute your comments about "we have a big gun on the 410, see?!" -- the Me410 with the BK gun was a mass produced production run. It was sent out to units and flown en masse against bomber formations. It had jamming issues and over time, most of them were replaced with lesser caliber gun trays, but unlike the 110G with the 37mm, it persisted for some time and was actually intended to work. The problems were all with the gun jamming after the first few shots. The problems with the 37mm BK3,7 on the 110G are like the Mk103 gunpods on the Fw190. They were tested and found wanting. They directly hurt the performance of the craft to the point that it was dangerous to fly in that configuration and lost all combat effectiveness, and furthermore despite having a large number on the order only small numbers were built and the rest cancelled.

You're trying very hard to make something be relevant when it just... wasn't. It's barely a footnote in the history books. There's no question, no debate. The facts are what they are. They tried the gun, they hated it, they stopped trying it and cancelled that production run.

EDIT: And this is all derailing the topic, anyways. The topic was to re-sort the weapons loadouts for the current 110G in game to allow historically relevant loadouts widely used during the long operational history of this airframe. Its current loadouts limit the use of this plane in events and scenarios by locking in the gunpod with the main fuselage armaments. Separating them out would improve the situation, and adding a 4x MG and no-MG option would round out all the necessary loadouts.

Edit 2: FalkEins is not a forum, and I cited the book they were using and even the page.

[PR3D4TOR]

And yet ZG 1 and ZG 76 were undeniably still using the 3.7 BK in late 1943 and early 1944, more than a year after starting testing it out. A total of 53 Me 410A-1/U4 were made and they all served with ZG 26. They used them in a handful of interceptions before switching out the gun-pack for something more effective. Yet that's enough for inclusion in this game, whether you like it or not.

The funny thing is this thread is completely pointless and you don't seem to realize your opinion is irrelevant. As is mine for that matter. Only one man's opinion matters and I doubt he reads this part of the forum (I wouldn't if I were him). IIRC he has stated a long time ago that for an aircraft to be eligible for inclusion in the game it must have served in at least squadron strength and must have seen combat. The Bf 110G-2/R1 fit those criteria.

[FBKampfer]

See image in reply #8 which clearly shows DTs on a special rack/carrier with the twin ETC50 further outboard

Hmm, so it is. Apologies, the 110 isn't my strong suit.

I do wonder why they didn't move to the 501 as with most other aircraft. They were pretty cheap mountings, and provided much greater flexibility as to what could be carried.

[Squire]

A Bf 110 G-2/R1 serving in a squadron does not mean it served in squadron strength. Those are two different things.

[save]

Did the 110G adapt the mk103 like the 410 ?

[morfiend]

Did the 110G adapt the mk103 like the 410 ?

 To my knowledge no,there were too few available and the 110's were long in the tooth by then! The 210/410 was supposed to be it's replacement but as you know it was withdrawn from service.

  I suggest those who think the 37mm is a nonfactor to read up on Black October,this was in 43 before the long ranged escorts were available,the Pulk destroyers just massed and waited,when the 47's peeled off they made their runs with devastating effect!

  I had read there were 50 plus units fielded,some were sent to deal with GV's in the east. I see no reason why this loadout cant be included just because it might cause some GV players to be upset. Against Buffs,well it might be tough to catch them it wouldnt be impossible!


 Notice how I started something then backed away.......

   I knew this would cause an upheaval.......




     

[Denniss]

Sadly the Luftwaffe records at ww2.dk have no or very limited info about the Bf 110G subversion in ZG units.

[PR3D4TOR]

A Bf 110 G-2/R1 serving in a squadron does not mean it served in squadron strength. Those are two different things.

As Dennis stated earlier there were 32 R1's made, and an unknown number of R4 and R5 models + unknown number of conversions. Plenty for squadron strength deployment.

[PR3D4TOR]

Morfiend, 110G production ended in April 1945. Though most 110 at that time (perhaps all?) were night fighters.