For the upcoming Bf110G revisions...

[PR3D4TOR]

so predator's just devolved into insult spewing. Frak if I know what I did to piss him off, other than to show him how few of his requested loadout actually flew.

1. I didn't request that loadout. Morfiend did.

2. You haven't shown me squat.

Fact remains that the 110G flew with the BK in squadron strength or more on multiple fronts and both in anti-tank and bomber-destroyer roles. That's more than enough to qualify for inclusion based on previous statements from HTC. Whether it was successful or not in real life is irrelevant. Your personal opinion is irrelevant. As is mine for that matter, or even this whole thread. I'll be very surprised if HiTech bothers to read this thread, and even more surprised if he makes any decisions based on it.

[Squire]

Sounds closer to the Spitfire Mk V 4 cannon argument. Unless they were used by more than just a staffel or so I would say no. Very rare armament packages should not be made optional in AH. Stick to the ones that saw some significant service.

...not that I think the 37mm would be all that useful on the Bf 110G I don't think it would be.

[PR3D4TOR]

Please help me understand the mentality of people who want to exclude something like this from a game?

[Serenity]

Please help me understand the mentality of people who want to exclude something like this from a game?

The simple mentality that people like things that are close to reality, not t3h uberz lazors rap t3h n00bz. I'm tempted to listen more to Krusty than you for the simple reason that you couldn't make an argument without personal insults. If it didn't see legitimate use, it doesn't belong here. You've posted a bunch of pictures of front-ends. Do you have any context for these? Any reason for us not to think these are a bunch of pictures of the same 3 airframes in testing?

[PR3D4TOR]

Close to reality in the MA? lol That's what scenarios are for. We have the Ta 152 of which only 43 were made and who knows how many actually saw combat. We have the F4U-1C (200 made), Me 163 (370), King Tiger (492), Jagdpanther (400), Wirbelwind (80-100) and Ostwind (44). The in-game P-38L has dive flaps despite the fact that the C-54 carrying the kits across the Atlantic was shot down in a friendly fire incident. We know the 110G-2/R1 and R4 flew with at least two heavy-fighter wings, ZG1 and ZG76. We know they fought at Kursk in the anti tank role and over the skies of Germany and Romania against the 8th and 9th AAF.

[Serenity]

Close to reality in the MA? lol That's what scenarios are for. We have the Ta 152 of which only 43 were made and who knows how many actually saw combat. We have the F4U-1C (200 made), Me 163 (370), King Tiger (492), Jagdpanther (400), Wirbelwind (80-100) and Ostwind (44). The in-game P-38L has dive flaps despite the fact that the C-54 carrying the kits across the Atlantic was shot down in a friendly fire incident. We know the 110G-2/R1 and R4 flew with at least two heavy-fighter wings, ZG1 and ZG76. We know they fought at Kursk in the anti tank role and over the skies of Germany and Romania against the 8th and 9th AAF.

Can you cite a source for this? Pictures without context are meaningless. Krusty has cited his source.

[PR3D4TOR]

No he hasn't. He quoted a quote from a quote from a different forum.

The testing of the BK 3.7 started with ZG1 in late 1942. More than a year later ZG 76 were still using the gun: "By spring 1944 I./ ZG 76 were based around Prague, and operating a number of Bf 110G-2/R1 types with an underslung BK 3,7 37 mm cannon in a conformal-mount ventral gun pod."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerst%C3%B6rergeschwader_76


From John Weal's book "Messerschmitt Bf 110 Zerstorer Aces of World War 2":



I posted a better version of this image earlier in this thread and it is pretty clear all the 110s are armed with the BK 3.7. Due to overexposure we can only see the barrel on the closest one but the bulge under the fuselage is clearly visible on all of them.


In late 1943 the BK 3.7 was clearly still also in use by ZG 1.



Bf 110 G-2 of 1./ZG 1 seen in Bad Lippspringe during August/September 1943 equipped with a BK 3,7 cm belly cannon. Left is Flugzeugführer Lt. Manfred Thewes, later Staffelkapitän 1./ZG 26 and then 1./JG 6 in the Reichsverteidigung. Next to him five victory ace Staffelkapitän Oblt. Rüdiger Ossmann KIA on 08 October 1943 in combat with US Viermots 20 km east of of the Dümmersee at the controls of Bf 110 G-2 "S9+AH" WNr.120047.

[ccvi]

The in-game P-38L has dive flaps despite the fact that the C-54 carrying the kits across the Atlantic was shot down in a friendly fire incident.

It's modeled perfectly. It has the button, but the dive-flaps themselve are missing / don't do anything.

[Oldman731]

Says physics. The 110G has enough problems catching bombers without the added drag of a BK. Save is right about that part. Against vehicles otoh. a 110 with 66 rounds of 37 mm is a very attractive prospect.

Without meaning to be rude, the photo you post above appears to show 110s hunting B17s...and the text accompanying the photo seems to agree that this is what those crazy 110 pilots were trying to do.

- oldman

[Devil 505]

I think he was specifically referring to hunting bombers in game where the buffs cruise at full throttle.

[PR3D4TOR]

Correct. In real life they were effective as long as the buffs were unescorted.

[Denniss]

Only 32 Bf 110 G-2/R1 were built +  unknown conversions (if any). A further 16 /R5 were built which may have had the BK 3,7 as well (conflicting sources).
Is there any evidence for 250kg underwing bombs ?
-> I've only seen 2x 50kg under each wing.
Plus it was possible to have 300l DT + rockets, probably also 300l DT + 50kg bombs - they didn't use the same atachment points. Drop tank attachment point was between Balkenkreuz and engine, bombs/rockets near Balkenkreuz. This outer-wing placement likely limited it to 2x50kg.

[EagleDNY]

While I am a big fan of the 110G, the reading I am doing all says the 3.7cm cannon tests were a failure and not proceeded with.  While I would love to give it a try myself, I can't see HTC spending time modelling this when it was a failure.   Add to that the 2 test series (anti-tank and anti-bomber) of the 3.7cm Flak 18 gun would be using different ammo - the AP ammo that we currently see in the Stuka cannon for anti-tank, and regular HE ammo for anti-bomber, which requires 2 different centerline loadout spots in the hanger.   

[FBKampfer]

For the 110G it was likely an ETC 501 rack capable of carrying either a 500kg bomb (depending on mounting location, limited to 250kg), or a drop tank of varying size. These became de facto standard from mid 1943 onward.

In theory, the 110 should be able to carry up to 2000kg of ordnance, but I've never seen anything to suggest that the 110G carried bombs larger than the 50kg bombs on the wings.

[PR3D4TOR]

While I am a big fan of the 110G, the reading I am doing all says the 3.7cm cannon tests were a failure and not proceeded with.  While I would love to give it a try myself, I can't see HTC spending time modelling this when it was a failure. 

That's not really relevant. We have the Me 410 with the 5 cm BK. It was also a "failure". Heh many planes already in the game like the 110C that's being updated right now weren't exactly success stories either. But they're fun in a game.