Fuel Octane differences?

[MiloMorai]

The Spit12 had a gravity-fed carb that would sputter in low-Gs. They put a restrictor on the feed so that it would pool and feed in, so that in moments of low-G it wouldn't sputter out and die. See Miss Shilling's orifice.

EDIT: Not important. Just an example of an comprehensive modification that changed performance for the better.

It was used on Merlin engined Spits well before the Griffon engined Spit XII.

[Zimme83]

If it says spit 1 and 2 then its more accurate.

[PR3D4TOR]

According to many Japanese pilots that flew it in combat, not so much.

Quote me one Zeke pilot claiming his ride under-performed in 1940-1943. You can't.

[Perrine]

We have perk points for airplanes...

How about introducing perk points for special weapons, fuels and equipment?  This opens lots of possibilities to spice up this stale game again.

Perk fuel - high octane fuel available to select planes based on historical records

Perk ordinance - IL-2 and Yak-9 PTAB, aerial rockets for me 262, for example

Perk equipment - computer gunsights like in p51, for example

Just make sure it can only be used once and work hard to earn it back again.

Example, land 5 victories in a Mustang D and perk add-ons become available.
You get the option to take high octane fuel (based on actual records) or a k-14 computer gunsight... You can not take both.  Once used you gotta earn it again by landing 5 victories using the standard in-game issued mustang D

[Zimme83]

If you can land 5 kills then you dont need it, and it would lead to even more vulching and cherry pickin so -1

[Brooke]

Hey Oldman 

I pop in now and then to see if there's anything interesting going on. Not much lately though.

Well, there is a scenario starting Feb 25 (and running next 3 Saturdays thereafter) based on air combat during Battle of the Bulge.

It has 109K's in it! 

[Old Crow]

Found the report on the U.S. Zeke test:

They had problems with the propeller not allowing maximum RPM.


They did not use the best available U.S. fuel and recognized that the engine had timing issues and thus had reduced performance during the tests.


They did not understand the mixture controls, or the controls themselves were not in working order.


So they tested a crashed Zeke that they repaired without having spare parts or factory documentation. They did not use any higher grade fuel than what the Japanese were using, they couldn't figure out the mixture controls, the engine timing was off and the propeller governor did not allow maximum RPM. I think it is pretty safe to assume this Zeke performed rather poorly compared to its brethren in Japanese service at the time.

All of this is correct except for the fact that the test referred to above was not from a U.S. test but from a test that took place in Kunming, China. The top speed for this A6M2 Zero was around 290 mph so yes, it performed rather poorly compared to its brethren in Japanese service at the time.

The link to this test can be found here:http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/p5016.pdf

This test also points out that the engine used in the Zero was "of almost identical design to our own Pratt & WhitneyR-1535 series". More importantly, the test states that "the engine is reportedly designed to operate on 100 octane fuel".  I believe at this time in the war, the Japanese were using 91 octane fuel in their airplanes.

The link to the U.S. test of the Aleutian Zero or Koga's Zero can be found here:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/intelsum85-dec42.pdf

In my book, "Cracking The Zero Mystery", they state that the engine was indeed overhauled upon the plane's arrival in San Diego. The Zero wasn't damaged very badly at all and performed as good as if not better than the Zeros our pilots were facing in the Pacific. I would say there's a good chance that we ran 100 octane fuel in it since the China test pointed out the engine was designed for it in the first place. Since the Japanese were using 91 octane at the time, the 326 mph top speed is probably a little high for the A6M2s we were facing as I pointed out in one of my previous posts - True Top Speed for the A6M Zero on Jan. 28.

[Guppy35]

Make it stop!!!!

Do you guys know how many times this same 150 octane fuel debate has raged here?  I was hoping against hope that someone just dredged up an old thread but no!  Please make it stop! 

[Rich46yo]

I was always under the impression the Germans had more issues with fuel quality then we did, most of all during the BOB, and even when they got it straightened out some they still had to tune engines specifically to fuel type and that their better synthetics was always in short supply while the Allies never worried about aviation fuel stocks.

The Japanese situation I know about but maybe someone could clarify better about The Luftwaffes experiences with their fuel. Thank you.

[Mike Williams]

Make it stop!!!!

Do you guys know how many times this same 150 octane fuel debate has raged here?  I was hoping against hope that someone just dredged up an old thread but no!  Please make it stop! 

Presumably you prefer "alternative facts"?

[MiloMorai]

Just Hungarian lawyer facts.

[Guppy35]

Presumably you prefer "alternative facts"?

LOL can't say that's the truth Mike.  I'm a WW2 history junkie just like you for over 40 years now.  My specialty is the Spit XII if it helps.  If you happen to come across Steve Brew's massive two volume history of 41 squadron, you'll find that much of my research fills Volume II covering the Spit XII era.  Phil Listemann's book on the XII also has my stuff in it.  So no, Alternative facts aren't an interest.

My point is, we've been over this stuff before, including yourself.  Your material has been quoted many times.  We've posted images showing 51s with 150/100 Octane written in the Data Blocks from the ETO.  We've done everything under the sun before to show that factually it happened. 

Problem is, folks want it so they can make the game easier, not for some great historical accuracy.  I believe the folks at HTC have despite our many attempts to show the 'facts' decided that for game play, giving Spits, Temps, 51s etc 150 octane fuel would not help game play so leaving it as it is, was their decision.

We could obviously take for example, the Spitfire V in AH.  Initially we had an LF Vc even though visually it looked like a Vb.  It was a beast down low as the LF V was designed to be.  For game play reasons I imagine, we got backdated to the early Vb that isn't nearly the performer the LF V was in AH.  Our IX has a Merlin 61 when historically the majority of IXs had Merlin 66s.  So it doesn't perform as well at the altitudes in AH that a Merlin 66 bird would.

You can go on and on with the "Facts', but combining them with the need for even out the game play seems to be a fact as well.

Here is one of the first discussions of 150 fuel.  17 years ago.  There are 25 other threads if you search 150 Octane where folks are making their pitch.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,28429.msg299689.html#msg299689

[PR3D4TOR]

The Spit LF Vc was last V and is a 1942 bird and not representative for the V that fought in many famous battles in North Africa and over the Channel in late-1940 and 1941 against 109Fs and later the 190A. The AH Spit IX is a 1942 version meant to fill the slot for an early IX vs 190A time frame. The Spit XVI is for all intents and purposes a clipped wing Spit LF IX and fills that role for late war IXs. There's also the VIII for a full wing Merlin 66 Spit.

[PR3D4TOR]

However I will add that a tropicalized Vc would be great for Far East scenarios.

[thrila]

The Spit LF Vc was last V and is a 1942 bird and not representative for the V that fought in many famous battles in North Africa and over the Channel in late-1940 and 1941 against 109Fs and later the 190A. The AH Spit IX is a 1942 version meant to fill the slot for an early IX vs 190A time frame. The Spit XVI is for all intents and purposes a clipped wing Spit LF IX and fills that role for late war IXs. There's also the VIII for a full wing Merlin 66 Spit.

Please bear in mind that the Bf 109F in AH uses 1942 boost settings.

We had the spit LF Vc in AH several years back, she was quite the little plane under 10k and was very popular- a bit too popular if i recall correctly. It would probably see a lot of use in AH if it was remodelled, but maybe not to the same extent with the greater variety of aircraft now present in AH.

My wishlist for a new spit would be a seafire L IIc or L III (this isn't to say I would say no to a spit Vc by any means). Despite the LIII being the most produced seafire and L IIC the most produced varient of the seafire IIC I think it's unlikely due to it's performance relative to other carrier fighters for MA gameplay.