Author Topic: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D  (Read 19589 times)

Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #105 on: April 01, 2017, 05:35:28 PM »
I'm working on a checkered nose because at least we know that's how his plane was for his last mission (and some time prior).

What is the date for the transition to checkered noses and do we know any dates for the photos of the "white" nose that are firm?

19 May 1944 is when his third victory was scored.   So the argument for a white nose and three victory marks can only fall (roughly) between 19 May (second and third victories) and 30 July 1944 (fourth victory).
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #106 on: April 01, 2017, 11:45:21 PM »
All isn't lost - his aircraft DID have a white nose for some time and later obviously they had switched them all to the red/yellow checker. Guess the question is ...WHEN? When did they switch out the white nose for the yellow/red?

Did Hiro fly the P-51B with the malcom hood and then upgraded to the P-51D?
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Offline fyvsix

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #107 on: April 02, 2017, 01:50:21 PM »
Gents,

I've been thinking about this a little more.

One more point supporting the white nose being a film anomaly.

The 357th D/K model mustangs were received from the states with a bare finish and painted by the group. They thought they may be going over to to continent or doing low alt work where the camo would be a benefit. There was some OD paint and some shade of local RAF green according to my books. The first D mustangs were received right around D-Day, several months after they standardized on the checkered noses.

When they painted them up they would have done the nose as well as the fuselage and wings etc.. It makes no sense for it to have a white nose when you look at the evidence. The airframes in the background of the four ship picture are all known to have checkering, but they appear white as in the photo. I think we should take the work of group historian Merle Olmsted and count this up as washed out film.



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Offline fyvsix

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #108 on: April 02, 2017, 02:28:33 PM »
I'm working on a checkered nose because at least we know that's how his plane was for his last mission (and some time prior).

What is the date for the transition to checkered noses and do we know any dates for the photos of the "white" nose that are firm?

19 May 1944 is when his third victory was scored.   So the argument for a white nose and three victory marks can only fall (roughly) between 19 May (second and third victories) and 30 July 1944 (fourth victory).

Vraciu,

I think the 8th AAF order for group markings was in March of 44. I've seen checkering on photos/profiles dated March as well. My best guess would be White noses up until early/mid March.

I think his first kills would have been in a 51B/C as the group did not receive the D models until around D-Day.

Hope this helps!

Fyv
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 02:36:23 PM by fyvsix »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #109 on: April 02, 2017, 03:35:41 PM »
It definitely does.  Thank you. 
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Offline fyvsix

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2017, 05:31:05 PM »
Vraciu,

I was doing some reading this afternoon and came across another picture of Horses' Itch. It has Maj Hiro with some ground grew and a shot of the planes nose area.

The book is P-51 Mustang Aces by William Ness and Thomas Ivie, page 20.



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2017, 06:44:19 PM »
Is that a side mirror?
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Offline VonKost

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2017, 06:45:35 PM »
looks like they swiped it off of some British car.  :D

Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #113 on: April 09, 2017, 06:46:27 PM »
looks like they swiped it off of some British car.  :D

 :rofl
”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #114 on: April 09, 2017, 11:46:58 PM »
looks like they swiped it off of some British car.  :D

At least it solves the mystery of the "white circle marking"--it wasn't a marking.
”KILLER V”
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #115 on: April 09, 2017, 11:55:32 PM »
Vraciu,

I was doing some reading this afternoon and came across another picture of Horses' Itch. It has Maj Hiro with some ground grew and a shot of the planes nose area.

The book is P-51 Mustang Aces by William Ness and Thomas Ivie, page 20.

(Image removed from quote.)

S! Fyvsix
Nice find fyvsix! So, how common were side-view mirrors? :x
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2017, 05:30:34 PM »
Nice find fyvsix! So, how common were side-view mirrors? :x

Don't tell him thank you.  He has cost me an entire day of drawing checkerboarding...    :furious
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Online Devil 505

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2017, 06:15:28 PM »
I'm sure a full day is no exaggeration either.

You have my sympathy.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #118 on: April 10, 2017, 08:09:18 PM »
I'm sure a full day is no exaggeration either.

You have my sympathy.

Oh, the madness of trying to get everything to line up.     :bhead  :bhead  :bhead  :bhead
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: "Horse's Itch" - 357th FG, 363 FS - P-51D
« Reply #119 on: April 10, 2017, 09:48:45 PM »
 :eek:





« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 09:53:38 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
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