Author Topic: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?  (Read 2596 times)

Offline oboe

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How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« on: February 21, 2017, 11:20:17 AM »
The P-51's forte was really long-range escort - but, the British practiced night bombing, so no escort was needed (or even practical?).   Wiki says the British used almost 1000 Bs and Cs (Mustang Mark III) and over 800 Ds (Mark IV).   How did they use them?  The only thing I can find is low level fighter sweeps with the Mustang Mark I and II due to its limited high altitude performance, and hunting V1 sites.

So what did they do with all those Mustangs?   Did the RAF use any in the Pacific Theater? 

Offline Vraciu

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 11:52:54 AM »
Primary RAF use was as a fighter bomber.   Those "Rhubarb" attacks on Germany, tactical recon, etc.   The Aussies used them in the Pacific and had a license to build them.  I think the war ended before they truly ramped that up.

The CA-15 was a sort of Aussie "Super Mustang" that got the axe due to jet technology.   It was a ground-up design.

As for British use in the Pacific I am drawing a blank.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 11:54:38 AM by Vraciu »
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 12:19:33 PM »
RAF also used Mustang Mk III and IV (the British names for the P-51B and D) as interceptors during the baby blitz and against doodlebugs.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 01:26:34 PM »
The RAF Allison Mustangs were also used in the Circus raids due to their good low alt performance.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 04:28:31 PM »
The first service use of the Mustang Mk 1 was in July of 1942 (delayed since April for personnel training). Squadron 2 took sixteen Mustangs into the Ruhr area to harass shipping and rail operations. The first operation of the flight was suppression of a military base in Belgium. Petroleum facilities in Lathan were strafed and then the squadron proceeded to Dortmund. Barges and ore laden shipping on the Ems river were strafed. Finally two large ships were strafed on the Zuider Zee with one ship left ablaze and the other one suffering from a large explosion amid ship. There were no enemy aircraft encountered, and no losses.

British reports indicated that the early Mustangs would out run the FW190A at low altitude, and out turn it at all altitudes.

C/AS Sir Charles Portal advised Air Vice Marshal Slessor that Mustang production in England would be advantageous (didn't happen).

Eventually the RAF would have 21 squadrons of the Mustang Mk 1.

The first use of the Mustang Mk 1A (P-51-1NA) or P-51 Apache (not the later A36 Mustang) was as photo-recon aircraft, and also by the British as ground support.

The eventual adaptation of the Merlin to the Mustang axed all of these variants in favor of focusing production efforts.
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Offline oboe

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2017, 08:03:20 AM »
The first service use of the Mustang Mk 1 was in July of 1942 (delayed since April for personnel training). Squadron 2 took sixteen Mustangs into the Ruhr area to harass shipping and rail operations. The first operation of the flight was suppression of a military base in Belgium. Petroleum facilities in Lathan were strafed and then the squadron proceeded to Dortmund. Barges and ore laden shipping on the Ems river were strafed. Finally two large ships were strafed on the Zuider Zee with one ship left ablaze and the other one suffering from a large explosion amid ship. There were no enemy aircraft encountered, and no losses.

British reports indicated that the early Mustangs would out run the FW190A at low altitude, and out turn it at all altitudes.

C/AS Sir Charles Portal advised Air Vice Marshal Slessor that Mustang production in England would be advantageous (didn't happen).

Eventually the RAF would have 21 squadrons of the Mustang Mk 1.

The first use of the Mustang Mk 1A (P-51-1NA) or P-51 Apache (not the later A36 Mustang) was as photo-recon aircraft, and also by the British as ground support.

The eventual adaptation of the Merlin to the Mustang axed all of these variants in favor of focusing production efforts.

Suddenly I want the P-51A and A-36A in the game.  A low altitude fighter sweep to harass enemy shipping and rail operations sounds like loads of fun!   'course when could use enemy shipping and rail operations in the game, too.

Just wondering what the British did with their Merlin-powered Mustangs.  Here they had a superb high altitude, long-range escort fighter, but really no need to use it as such.  Did they just continue low level attack/penetration raids with them?

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2017, 08:02:46 PM »
Did the Brits ever fly P-47s?
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2017, 08:32:48 PM »
Did the Brits ever fly P-47s?

I know the Aussies did.
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Offline Squire

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 08:56:11 PM »
RAF used the Thunderbolt in Burma. AH has some RAF P-47 skins. The Mustang for them I believe was solely in the ETO and it was used as a tactical fighter, recce and escort.
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Offline bozon

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 07:10:40 AM »
RAF also used P51s to escort day operations by medium bombers and other attack planes. Most noteable were long range Coastal Command operations, in Norway for example. Escorting photo recce missions was also one of their jobs.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2017, 07:27:04 AM »
Did the Brits ever fly P-47s?

 The Royal Air Force was supplied with a total of 830 P-47Ds. In RAF service, the "razorback" P-47D was known as the Thunderbolt I and the "bubble canopy" P-47D was known as Thunderbolt II. Thunderbolt Is were delivered in two batches--serials FL731 to FL850 and HB962 to HD181. They were delivered to the RAF from the P-47D-22-RE production blocks. The "bubble-topped" Thunderbolt II fighters were from the P-47D-25/-30-RE and the P-47D-30/-40-RA production blocks, and four main batches were delivered--serials HD182 to HD301, KJ128 to KJ367, KL168 to KL347, and KL838 to KL976. A few aircraft in the last two batches were equipped with the dorsal fin strake.

The RAF Thunderbolts were evaluated in Europe, but most of them were shipped to the CBI theatre, where they fought against the Japanese. The following RAF squadrons --the 5th, 30th, 79th, 123rd (later became 81), 134th (later became 131), 135th (later became 615th ), 146th (later became 42nd), 258th and 261st Squadrons in 1944, and the 34th, 42nd, 60th, 81st, 113th, 131st and 615th Squadrons in 1945. However, many of these late arrivals were not in time to see any action. One of the first RAF squadrons to see action was the 5th Squadron, which was based in Burma and which had previously flown Mohawks and Hurricanes. They flew patrols under the direction of visual ground posts and caused tremendous damage among Japanese troops and supply lines.

Following V-J Day, most of the Thunderbolts rapidly disappeared from RAF squadrons, which were either disbanded or were reequipped with British-built aircraft. The last RAF squadron (No 60) disposed of their Thunderbolts in October of 1946.

Offline Zimme83

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 09:07:40 AM »
Suddenly I want the P-51A and A-36A in the game.  A low altitude fighter sweep to harass enemy shipping and rail operations sounds like loads of fun!   'course when could use enemy shipping and rail operations in the game, too.

Just wondering what the British did with their Merlin-powered Mustangs.  Here they had a superb high altitude, long-range escort fighter, but really no need to use it as such.  Did they just continue low level attack/penetration raids with them?

And you must also consider that while the early ponies could match the speed of early 190:s and the 109G-2 it will not match the opposition it will face in the MA. And there are several planes that can fly low level ground attack missions with greater success
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 11:03:45 PM »
And you must also consider that while the early ponies could match the speed of early 190:s and the 109G-2 it will not match the opposition it will face in the MA. And there are several planes that can fly low level ground attack missions with greater success

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Offline lyric1

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 03:30:05 AM »
I know the Aussies did.

Kind of sort of on that point.

No RAAF squadron ever flew P-47's.
There were several RAF squadrons that were full of Australian personal that did.
In the CBI theater you had No 258 Squadron, Royal Air Force for example plus they had a lot New Zealand personal as well.


Offline Vraciu

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Re: How did the British employ the P-51B and D?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 03:05:40 PM »
Kind of sort of on that point.

No RAAF squadron ever flew P-47's.
There were several RAF squadrons that were full of Australian personal that did.
In the CBI theater you had No 258 Squadron, Royal Air Force for example plus they had a lot New Zealand personal as well.

I had always thought one of these squadrons was RAAF.   My bad.

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