Time for another poll - this time it's about MA terrains

[DmonSlyr]

I was just comparing the results of the raw vote to the Scottish STV, and it looks to me like Mindnao was robbed - it had more raw votes than Montis, but Montis came out ahead after all the rounds of suplus vote distribution.

I'll have to look more closely at why that happened later.   Doesn't change anything about the 3 favored maps.   Just curious about that result

I chose Montis first because it doesn't have a furball or tank island. There's always fights for all 3 teams normally. It's small. There's great CV action and the front's arent too far away. I find the biggest fights on this map because they are easy to spot around the map and the action is condensed.

Here's some thoughts.

Bowl MA was pretty decent. I actually had it 6th on my list. I think it being new, and having battle ships made a lot of people like it. It does have decent fights, but I still think it's overall just too big. You are correct about the new maps, but at the same time, buzzsaw is just so bad that no one likes it. The fights are still slow in the off hours and there's no real condensed action area for players to find fights once the #s die down. A lot of times I just saw a few planes here or there spread out around the map.

Ndisles was my second choice. Overall its very small. There's great fights on many islands. Fun CV action, I'm not a big fan of furball islands, but it's alright here. There's a lot of good aspects to the map that make some good fighter action in many parts.

CraterMA was my 3rd choice. Overall it's actually a pretty good map. I do think it's still too big. I'm not a fan of the TT though. It generates pretty decent fights around the map. One reason is because the bases aren't too far distanced. I think people chose it because it still produces big fights in many areas of the map.

I chose Mindano 4th. that's the one that looks like a big island country right? Very small map. Always easy to find fights. Can fight agaisnt 2 other teams at the same time on the map. It's easy and clear to find the fights. Everything is very condensed. The only thing about it is the mountains make plane altitudes very high and can lead to high alt fights, which are typically much more challenging and time consuming for players.

The SMpizza map was #5 for me. Still a small map with no TT which I like. Theres some good fights still. I do think the bases are a little too far apart for the Map size. You can have a really small map, but with far away bases it will still be slow. This map doesn't really have a flow to it, and I think that's why it scored so low. The sides aren't really symmetrical and I think it just throws people off. Maybe it gets won too quickly, but I just don't think players have played on it that much and people aren't as familiar with the fight flow on this map so they scored it lower. I still think it is decent map though. Just an observation.

Finally, the SFMA2016 map was 7th. The heart shaped map. It's one of the older small maps, I actually think it has great fights from A1-A19 and at the top of the map along the coast. But those 2 specific areas are always where the fights are. The south east part of the map is very week because bases are too far apart. I think if this area was reworked, it could open a lot more fights down south. It's the same ole same ole every fight on this map, and I'm sure it's just old for players.


Extra note:
Maybe another design that might work for a map is a donut, with a huge circle of water on the inside similar to SFMA2016, and teams would have to fly around the outside ring to capture bases. Sort of like a NASCAR ring.  There would be 2 -3 bases as the width of the area. Put some CVs in the middle. I think it would be a fun map that would condense the action very well and spark big fights.

[bongaroo]

There was a reason Airwarrior did away with FT's........ They don't work in the MA.

And how is AW doing these days?   

Based on how many people fly in the FT area when the 1 map we have left with one is up; I would argue it works just fine.

[DmonSlyr]

And how is AW doing these days?   

Based on how many people fly in the FT area when the 1 map we have left with one is up; I would argue it works just fine.

FTs and TT are pretty fun and great for new quick fights, but they just take away from the entire point of what the MA is suppose to be. That's why I insist that Map makers make the middle where either all 3 teams can collide and have a fight in the middle, or just have no middle all together. The best way IMO to make a middle for all the teams to clash would be to have 1 base in the middle at a little higher alt, and then have the 2 other teams so be able to fight for the high ground middle. That might be pretty fun also. I really like the flow or Montis, which doesn't need a "middle" but has both fronts across from each other at a reasonable distance. It can create good fights throughout the maps without their needing to be a "middle".

[bustr]

I was just comparing the results of the raw vote to the Scottish STV, and it looks to me like Mindnao was robbed - it had more raw votes than Montis, but Montis came out ahead after all the rounds of suplus vote distribution.

I'll have to look more closely at why that happened later.   Doesn't change anything about the 3 favored maps.   Just curious about that result

Analise the three or four top maps for a simple thing, the microcosm setup that gets repeated so almost anywhere players have the conditions met for less time to the fight and good terrain for GVs. Then for closer feilds near by to up from. You can see it by looking at any 2x2 sector area, ndisles has about 3 airfields with at least one other type of field in each 2x2 microcosm. Using the 19mile rule you can get another airfield into that sometimes which speeds up the time to fight.   

Buzzsaw during prime time has action for "groups" of players willing to move around their country. For the solo player who wants a specific kind of action, it can be great and then horrible in wide swings because of that need to move around and kick cans. When air action is good, it's great until it peters out and you have to kick a few more cans in the hope of promoting another great air combat location. Buzzsaw is a finicky map for good air combat but, there is usually a prime time window if you can catch it. On squad night if buzzsaw is up, POTW uses it's numbers to kick cans until we get a fight, and we get fights with no problems. It is not a solo player friendly map to casually find a fight with duration.

The base distance rules for MA terrains dictates a pretty well defined outcome to MA terrains no matter the shape of the land masses. Maximum combat radius is usually about 2x2 sectors because most players are not here to spend the evening flying to a fight. The genius is what you do with that 2x2 because each corner of the 2x2 is a corner to another 2x2. Ndisles uses water to keep fights discrete to dispersed 2x2s which is great for NOE missions and uninterrupted 2 country fights. And why having three small airfields in the center in a 12mile on a side triangle works. Salting 12 mile distance airfields as a rule around an MA terrain will result in them becoming road blocks to doing much of anything but playing War Thunder for fear of getting stabbed in the back. They will become prime capture targets just for that reason. Imagine buzzsaw with a 9k airfield 12 miles from your 4k airfield, then imagine the same for any other feilds inside of the 2x2 accessible to that 9k field and at least half of the other 2x2 on it's backside it is in a corner sector to.

Now if Hitech wants to change the MA to a sandbox that is a 6x6 sector terrain, sure, 12 mile distances. That would be one heck of a circular firing squad and bring out the really worst in gamyness to not loose fights. If you think you have seen the worst in funky chicken, HOnRun and whatever else gets whine fests going in the forums. That will be tame with the cast of "not loose at any cost" greifers we have today. And the complaints about lack of a strategic game now, a map that small would be xBox hero city and Leroy Jenkins would be the highest level of ability.

Cramming large numbers of rats or people close together to "force them" to interact, even in a game, does not bring out the best in them. Splitting the MA into two arenas was an example of that once the arena space for a single MA arena became over populated. Unless your goal in this game is to be abusive and self serving at the cost of others. The closer you can get everyone crammed and angrier at each other, the more you can abuse them in the arena and here in the forums. For some that's a superior reward than their kills landed in the text buffer. 

[Lusche]

The best way IMO to make a middle for all the teams to clash would be to have 1 base in the middle at a little higher alt, and then have the 2 other teams so be able to fight for the high ground middle. That might be pretty fun also.

The FESTER map had this feature, and it was mostly ignored.

[DmonSlyr]

The FESTER map had this feature, and it was mostly ignored.

Im pretty sure the fester map only had 3 small tank bases in the middle. His map wasn't really what I was thinking about. Also, too bad that map is gone. It really did spark some good fights. Most fights on his map were not in the middle, which I liked a lot.

Analise the three or four top maps for a simple thing, the microcosm setup that gets repeated so almost anywhere players have the conditions met for less time to the fight and good terrain for GVs. Then for closer feilds near by to up from. You can see it by looking at any 2x2 sector area, ndisles has about 3 airfields with at least one other type of field in each 2x2 microcosm. Using the 19mile rule you can get another airfield into that sometimes which speeds up the time to fight.   

Buzzsaw during prime time has action for "groups" of players willing to move around their country. For the solo player who wants a specific kind of action, it can be great and then horrible in wide swings because of that need to move around and kick cans. When air action is good, it's great until it peters out and you have to kick a few more cans in the hope of promoting another great air combat location. Buzzsaw is a finicky map for good air combat but, there is usually a prime time window if you can catch it. On squad night if buzzsaw is up, POTW uses it's numbers to kick cans until we get a fight, and we get fights with no problems. It is not a solo player friendly map to casually find a fight with duration.

The base distance rules for MA terrains dictates a pretty well defined outcome to MA terrains no matter the shape of the land masses. Maximum combat radius is usually about 2x2 sectors because most players are not here to spend the evening flying to a fight. The genius is what you do with that 2x2 because each corner of the 2x2 is a corner to another 2x2. Ndisles uses water to keep fights discrete to dispersed 2x2s which is great for NOE missions and uninterrupted 2 country fights. And why having three small airfields in the center in a 12mile on a side triangle works. Salting 12 mile distance airfields as a rule around an MA terrain will result in them becoming road blocks to doing much of anything but playing War Thunder for fear of getting stabbed in the back. They will become prime capture targets just for that reason. Imagine buzzsaw with a 9k airfield 12 miles from your 4k airfield, then imagine the same for any other feilds inside of the 2x2 accessible to that 9k field and at least half of the other 2x2 on it's backside it is in a corner sector to.

Now if Hitech wants to change the MA to a sandbox that is a 6x6 sector terrain, sure, 12 mile distances. That would be one heck of a circular firing squad and bring out the really worst in gamyness to not loose fights. If you think you have seen the worst in funky chicken, HOnRun and whatever else gets whine fests going in the forums. That will be tame with the cast of "not loose at any cost" greifers we have today. And the complaints about lack of a strategic game now, a map that small would be xBox hero city and Leroy Jenkins would be the highest level of ability.

Cramming large numbers of rats or people close together to "force them" to interact, even in a game, does not bring out the best in them. Splitting the MA into two arenas was an example of that once the arena space for a single MA arena became over populated. Unless your goal in this game is to be abusive and self serving at the cost of others. The closer you can get everyone crammed and angrier at each other, the more you can abuse them in the arena and here in the forums. For some that's a superior reward than their kills landed in the text buffer. 

The 19 mile rule is what you need to start using. I think 15-17 miles would even be better. But 19 should be the standard. Anything 25 miles is just too far away. Which is why the outside of the Buzzsaw arena doesn't work, and which is why the southeast side of SFMA2016 front is too far apart and the action is more stale down there. It's very hard to continue attacking a base over and over again when each flight takes 15 minutes to get to a base.

Buzzsaw needs to go. It's a detriment to the game.

Maps should have bases that very in distance but really 17-19 miles would work a hell of a lot better than 25. The fights would be much better. There wouldn't be so many alt monkeys, there wouldn't be as many hoards because taking off from a back field would be easier. One reason that Hoards are so prevelant is that they attack a base and hoard it, but the back base is 25 miles away and no one wants to take the time to up from the back field to go stop it. Most of the time, when the fields are far apart, if there is a fight, it's high alt monkey hoarders and this is pushing people away. Shorter base distance would have quicker fights at less altitude and would be much more fun and even for both sides.

 

[Lusche]

Im pretty sure the fester map only had 3 small tank bases in the middle.

And a central airfield , which could be used to launch quick & easy sorties to the 3 central strats at that time. The design intention was to have the three countries to fight over that that potentially very valuable base.

[DmonSlyr]

And a central airfield , which could be used to launch quick & easy sorties to the 3 central strats at that time. The design intention was to have the three countries to fight over that that potentially very valuable base.

Oh yeah, I member. Well, maybe it would have worked better if the outside bases around the TT area were closer. The middle was kind of in the middle of no where.  I think if the outside bases were closer, and it was geared toward to fighter bases, and not tank bases around it, it might have been much better. That being said, I'm sad that festers map is no longer here, as it actually did spark great fights around the map.

[JimmyC]

V...make a map .it's probably the best way to state your case..
Maybe see if you can find someone to do it with you...
Then we can play it and see if your theory hold water..
I"d LOVE to see it in action.
  Jimmy

[KrzyIvan]

V...make a map .it's probably the best way to state your case..
Maybe see if you can find someone to do it with you...
Then we can play it and see if your theory hold water..
I"d LOVE to see it in action.

+1

[DmonSlyr]

V...make a map .it's probably the best way to state your case..
Maybe see if you can find someone to do it with you...
Then we can play it and see if your theory hold water..
I"d LOVE to see it in action.
  Jimmy

Jimmy, the problem is time. That being said, I just moved to Oregon and am out of work until I find one. I might look at the terrain manager today and see what I can do.

Personally, I think about 15 people need to be working on different maps, super small, small, big, medium, large and so on. The more types of maps the better. I'd like to see about 20 maps be created for all types of game play. I think it would help a lot for custom arenas.

[Shuffler]

There are a lot of terrains for the custom arenas. They are not as strict as the MA.