Pitch Ladder ...

[Vraciu]

I would not exactly call  any of this backing me up.

HiTech

Read the last entry. 


That was direct support. 

I would quote it all but I am not on a computer to do it.   In any event..

The rest was my opinion that a pitch ladder isn't needed but that if you chose to include it to help new players that made sense.    And that as long as it can be turned off it isn't a concern.

It's your game. Do what you think is best.  But as for me the pitch ladder is superfluous as the game already provides sufficient visual cues for spatial orientation. 

[Wiley]

I don't need a pitch ladder to know my orientation.  Ever.    The game provides all of that already.

While looking out the front windscreen of the plane?  How?

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

While looking out the front windscreen of the plane?  How?

Wiley.

Reference to the horizon, something every
primary student is taught when learning to fly.

It's Basic Airmanship 101.

(Something I spent 1300+ hours teaching, FWIW.)

[Wiley]

Reference to the horizon, something every
primary student is taught when learning to fly.

It's Basic Airmanship 101.

(Something I spent 1300+ hours teaching, FWIW.)

Ok.  So... looking out the front of the plane with standard FOV with your nose 75-80 degrees or higher, where's the horizon?

The point is, your body and peripheral vision is telling you a lot more about what's going on without you having to take your eyes off the front windscreen than we have available ingame.

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

I would not exactly call  any of this backing me up.

Also I am curious how much flying vertical/aerobatic time in real planes you have?

HiTech

You appended your quote. 

You want L-39, T-34, T-28, Strikemaster, Citabria/Decathlon, or Aerobat?

[Vraciu]

Ok.  So... looking out the front of the plane with standard FOV with your nose 75-80 degrees or higher, where's the horizon?

The point is, your body and peripheral vision is telling you a lot more about what's going on without you having to take your eyes off the front windscreen than we have available ingame.

Wiley.

Depends on my pitch rate.   Or I can glance sideways to see.  No pitch ladder needed. 

In game it's quite easy.   You can turn your head like a bobblehead and you have no G-induced impacts.   

Pitch ladder is superfluous.   If you need it use it.   It's your choice.   I have no beef with you doing so. 

[Wiley]

Depends on my pitch rate.    I can glance sideways to see.  No pitch ladder needed. 

In game it's quite easy.   You can turn your head like a bobblehead and you have no G-induced impacts.   

Pitch ladder is superfluous.

Not what I said.  Without moving your head ingame, how do you tell where the horizon is?  You get the feel of when you're vertical in your body.  The glance to the side is mostly verification.

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

Not what I said.  Without moving your head ingame, how do you tell where the horizon is?  You get the feel of when you're vertical in your body.  The glance to the side is mostly verification.

Wiley.

And as I said it depends on my pitch rate.   I have a picture in my head that I keep when maneuvering.    Unless I depart the airplane I know where I am.  The game is quite good at this.

[Wiley]

And as I said it depends on my pitch rate.

Your pitch rate widens your field of view to see the horizon?  That sounds like a glitch.

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

Your pitch rate widens your field of view to see the horizon?  That sounds like a glitch.

Wiley.

That's not what said. 

[Wiley]

That's not what said. 

Then how do you know where the horizon is looking out the front of the plane with your nose at 80 degrees ingame?

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

Then how do you know where the horizon is looking out the front of the plane with your nose at 80 degrees ingame?

Wiley.

The continual picture I keep in my head.    It's super easy in the game.  No Gs.   Noise.  Bumps.   Heat.   

[Wiley]

The continual picture I keep in my head.    It's super easy in the game.  No Gs.   Noise.  Bumps.   Heat.   

Personally I look out the side, but that's not my point.  IRL you don't have to do it.  Like HT said, the ladder gives you the info a bit easier.  That's all.  I disagree with it being in a WWII game, but that's not my call.

Wiley.

[Vraciu]

Personally I look out the side, but that's not my point.  IRL you don't have to do it.  Like HT said, the ladder gives you the info a bit easier.  That's all.  I disagree with it being in a WWII game, but that's not my call.

Wiley.

Agree with you for the most part.  I don't think side glances are required here or in real life but they obviously help. 

It's in the game and that's that.   The Steam crowd will find it helpful until they get experience.    If it keeps them playing then I am fine with it.   

[Mister Fork]

 

Agree with you for the most part.  I don't think side glances are required here or in real life but they obviously help. 

It's in the game and that's that.   The Steam crowd will find it helpful until they get experience.    If it keeps them playing then I am fine with it.   

The first time I flew instruments in cloud (real life) I was right seat and I couldn't tell which way was up or down or if I was even sideways. Air dynamics and gravity has a funny way of fooling the inner ear to which way is up - where the horizon is, and the ability to get lost in the clouds.  Spatial disorientation can be the worst feeling ever for a novice pilot.

For me, by the time I was flying real life in the clouds, I already had a couple thousand hours of sim flying - and dozens flying looking down, not out. Back to the first time right seat,  using my instruments only to navigate when flying IFR in the grey space came naturally.  No panic and I found it easier to keep track flying from beacon to beacon, focus on readings - altimeter, VOR, speed, heading, and quickly checking for drift and icing. Didn't have the fancy GPS nav units we have today when I was practising to become a pilot. And looking outside in turbulent IFR flying did nothing to help me figure which way is up.

I think it's important to teach the same to any new pilot in the game. Flying in clouds is the next step in the evolution of learning how to fly. Don't like flying without your pitch ladder? Don't fly in clouds if you're not ready to use just your instruments.

I'm happy with the current implementation.