'What if' All-in-one - the ultimate WW2 AH experience

[nugetx]

The current player numbers are because OMA in the first place. 10 years ago player numbers were high  because the gameplay was still something relatively new, but most people after time just move on if the gameplay is same old same old without an incentive to keep them playing which most people see after time of playing on OMA.

Even if Steam gets an influx of people at start, after time it will go back to same numbers, because the current gameplay is for a very narrow crowd,  people who do not care about as much about game being ww2 historical and who want instant action with very few specific planes.

If the people here could get past the fact that they would have to do a few sorties in a early war plane, a lot more people would come from different games.

Flight simmers (il 2 1946, cliffs of dover, rise of flight, battle of moscow) for the WW2. World of planes, war thunder (for the progression).
And I'm not even counting all the players who never played a flight game but want to play a game that simulates world war II combat.

And having AvA arenas does not help either, because then the arenas are split, and people flock where most people are, and the 'current crowd' stays in the OMA, that is why those arenas are empty in the first place.

What this game needs is a single WW II arena to have all the players in there - the biggest sandbox, and everyone will do there what they want.

[The Fugitive]

We have already pointed out that there is a good percentage of players who PAY to fly a single plane. There are also squads that hold to one type of plane as well. You "earn the perks" deal would chase them away, already proven.

You said you would be happy to have a plane that had 30 rockets and spend all your time shooting AI, and said that other players would like to do this too. What happens to some of those players that are trying to enjoy some quite time shooting AI that keep getting killed by real players looking for a live player to shoot down? They get frustrated and leave. Proven already aswell.

There were a number of factors that got the game into the low numbers we have now. The economy tanked and a lot of people had to drop the game, their internet connection, and sell their computers to pay the rent and buy food.

Normal attrition continued. EVERY game has its players who get bored and move on. This is normal and expected. Normally the influx of new players continues and so it doesnt hurt the numbers, but with a crappy economy we kept losing players and not gaining as many back. Again the old food and rent is more important than a game to most people.

Lack of advertising. While the game was running in its hey day word of mouth was enough to keep the influx even with or ahead of the out going. With the economy drop, the word of mouth dried up as people weren't talking about games and most people "forgot" about Aces High. With no advertising, and no word of mouth nobody was talking about the game and so new players weren't hearing about it nor checking it out.

Hopefully steam will get the word out there about Aces High. Once/if that happens  as long as the influx of players stays ahead of the out going players all will be well. Personally I hope they tweak the arena to force more combat, or limit the ability of players to avoid a fight. I know of two players that are canceling there subscriptions due to the lack of combat. Neither guy is a "strictly" a furballer, but help defend or attack just to be IN the fight.

Only time will tell.

[nugetx]

We have already pointed out that there is a good percentage of players who PAY to fly a single plane. There are also squads that hold to one type of plane as well. You "earn the perks" deal would chase them away, already proven.

And is it good gameplay? Paying to fly a single plane? What about players who want to see all planes being used? They are forced to fight vs few planes all the time, that is why they are not here in the first place, because squads and single pilots are using 1 plane.
While this might be true that it would drive some people away, new players would come in big numbers from different games.

What happens to some of those players that are trying to enjoy some quite time shooting AI that keep getting killed by real players looking for a live player to shoot down?

They get better in the end, and hunt you down 

There were a number of factors that got the game into the low numbers we have now. The economy tanked and a lot of people had to drop the game, their internet connection, and sell their computers to pay the rent and buy food.

This seems like blaming everything but not the problem itself.Look at war thunder. It has over 500,000 players logged in at same time, with just having a match room system.

[bustr]

Fugi,

Break down what he is describing into simple terms and it becomes easier to talk about. Turn the main arena into an AI war that players can grind their way through to the end by taking on objectives to achieve rewards of many categories while choosing to shoot at AI or at real people. Kind of what Combat Tour was supposed to be back in AH2.

What do we know about this in AH terms?

1. - Hitech has evolved AI aircraft for the AI mission arena in which very few people take part.
2. - Players have asked for more AI objectives to shoot at in the melee arena versus risking running into a game vet. Game vets will just fly near by waiting and get free kills.
3. - Players have asked for AI bomber fleets to run scheduled missions through the melee arena 24x7 to add another element to game play. 
4. - Players have asked for more active AI troopers to run around and cause havoc including being able to control one just like being a bailed out pilot.
5. - Players have asked for more solo ships and task group types to enhance attacking shore installations and other ship groups.
6. - Players have asked for some kind of a grind objective accomplishment function more akin to our competitors. Ergo, AI objectives to shoot at.

Are you offended by nugetx's ideas because he wants Hitech to re-make AH into a kludge of all the games he has used for examples so far? Or, is it you want absolutely nothing AI in the melee arena? The one point nuget is correct about, AH is the melee arena, which is the game, and where everyone will want to be because of the numbers. What is presented in there makes or breaks the game for the new customer. The new customer is another open ended discussion for another post, 1.) inculcate\force them to the AH we know or, 2.) Hitech sees a need to evolve the game to include the expectations of a new demographic.

I want Hitech to make his game and not nugetx's game because Hitech makes games for a living. Nugetx has no skin in Hitech's future if nugetx's ideas flame out bankrupting HTC. Then nugetx just goes down the road and convinces another game creator to burn his own game to the ground and moves on. In the end all of this is nugetx's "opinion" and as Skuzzy pointed out, he has every right to voice it here and not get beaten up for it.

Do you see Skuzzy or Hitech beating him up for saying Hitech needs to do x,y,z or Aces High will bite it and burn? Hitech would not have updated the AI code and moved the game to AH3 if the game didn't need to evolve to stay relevant. And at the personal cost of getting rule# by Skuzzy, we learned Hitech and Skuzzy decided it is a good thing to allow none subscribers to post their ideas about AH in these forums.

What are we defending here or, keeping from happening? Hitech does jump on ideas he likes in the Wish List with a personal response as we have seen over the years. And then like the Steam announcement, he has blind sided the community over the years out of the blue. Are we fighting with nugetx to shoot down his ideas or, to keep Hitech from changing the game where we don't want it to go? All nugetx is presenting is his "opinion", and isn't there an old saying about opinions and people having them?

[nugetx]

I like that post bustr +1

Turn the main arena into an AI war that players can grind their way

I would add to that,  that the AI ground war should be pretty static, so the players (planes and GV's)  have a 99% impact on what happens. This would be best for gameplay as it would make players have a direct impact on the war, and even the single 'lone wolf' pilot, could make a difference in grand scheme by strafing infantry and helping in the effort. Currently the fields are taken by the players 100%, so it only makes sense that the ground war is also affected by the players.


As for the grind... the grind is in games like WoT or WT, here it would not be a grind as such, it would be more of a reward for performing actions that help the war effort,  and the reward is a 'better' plane.
Everyone would fly the early or mid war plane..... it would give a feel of accomplishment to fly a 'better' plane while everyone is still in lower one.........  just like it is currently with 262 and 163 !


I too want to see HTC make their own version of this, and these ideas are only a hint of getting there...... I'm excited to see what AH could look like if it had a ground war.

[bustr]

nuget,

Every idea you have presented someone has presented who was or is a game customer over the past 10 years. Only Hitech knows where he will take the game and how many of those\your ideas he found to meet with his designs for the future.

As you can see you met the old school AH family of hardcore open world person to person air combat fans. Including myself many of them have been playing this same style of air combat with ancillary GVs, ships, and manned guns since AW4DOS. I was borrowing my roommate's account and flying as him in AW starting in 89 and played that venue until it closed and found it again here with AH in 02. Man to man air combat with more than 32 in a room is unique and AI as of yet cannot replace a person on the other end of a connection. AI fighter planes either suck being in less than ace mode or are too perfect in ace mode to be a human being. Not everyone cares about old school man to man air combat, while AI caters to a large fan base of the ego risk averse with short attention spans. That demographic can irrevocably change a paradigm and remove the high bar that defines man to man air combat in a more than 32 player arena.

I believe you know both sides of this debate as well as your audience. As a rule of experience, unless Hitech jumps in and asks questions about your ideas to gain more insight to your reasoning. Versus he asked who here has programed a game in response to your ideas. He went to bed and you are in that park in London where anyone can step up on a box and yell their point of view at the passing citizens to entertain themselves.

So will you be staying long on your box here with us?   

[nugetx]

AI fighter planes either suck being in less than ace mode or are too perfect in ace mode to be a human being

Was only talking about infantry, trucks and trains being AI.

Having AI fighter planes or bombers would be a no-no from me.

So will you be staying long on your box here with us?

Time will tell

[Vraciu]

And is it good gameplay? Paying to fly a single plane? What about players who want to see all planes being used? They are forced to fight vs few planes all the time, that is why they are not here in the first place, because squads and single pilots are using 1 plane.
While this might be true that it would drive some people away, new players would come in big numbers from different games.

They get better in the end, and hunt you down 

This seems like blaming everything but not the problem itself.Look at war thunder. It has over 500,000 players logged in at same time, with just having a match room system.

I applaud your efforts in the face of determined--perhaps irrational--opposition.  You'll have more success convincing a brick wall.   

These types "know" they're right and nothing you say will ever disavow them of that notion.   After all, they've been here longer than you, so you lose by default. 

In any case, I appreciate your enthusiasm and a patience on par with Hosea.   

[The Fugitive]

And is it good gameplay? Paying to fly a single plane? What about players who want to see all planes being used? They are forced to fight vs few planes all the time, that is why they are not here in the first place, because squads and single pilots are using 1 plane.
While this might be true that it would drive some people away, new players would come in big numbers from different games.

It is for those that want to fly that single type of plane. If that is the only reason they are spending $15 a month, you have just sent them all away.

They get better in the end, and hunt you down 

oh I doubt that very much. If you spend all your time shooting AI/building you wont stand a chance against players who do nothing but fight other players.

This seems like blaming everything but not the problem itself.Look at war thunder. It has over 500,000 players logged in at same time, with just having a match room system.

All that proves is there are a lot of people that like cheapy arcade style games that are free to play.

....lots of blah blah blah

Bustr Im not berating nugetx, Im just explaining things as I see them with the experience of playing here for over a dozen years. What I have seen and heard from Hitech that things are NEVER added to the game just to add something to the game. It MUST add something to game play without hurting game play. Hitech has had the option for years to add micro trans actions be it money, credit or perk transfer and yet he hasn't. Everything I has seen him add to the game has promoted interaction between players, not the other way around where players are chasing AI.

I applaud your efforts in the face of determined--perhaps irrational--opposition.  You'll have more success convincing a brick wall.   

These types "know" they're right and nothing you say will ever disavow them of that notion.   After all, they've been here longer than you, so you lose by default. 

In any case, I appreciate your enthusiasm and a patience on par with Hosea.   

I dont think anyone has a problem with him posting ideas. What most have an issue with is his tenacity even in the face of the owner/builder of the game shooting down his ideas. Post your idea, and let it go. Continuing to shout from the top of your box will more than likely get you ignored than a chance to have your idea see the light of day.

[Drano]

oh I doubt that very much. If you spend all your time shooting AI/building you wont stand a chance against players who do nothing but fight other players.


100% correct! No chance.


I dont think anyone has a problem with him posting ideas. What most have an issue with is his tenacity even in the face of the owner/builder of the game shooting down his ideas. Post your idea, and let it go. Continuing to shout from the top of your box will more than likely get you ignored than a chance to have your idea see the light of day.

It's kinda like this:

https://youtu.be/bOnRHAyXqYY



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Vraciu]

It is for those that want to fly that single type of plane. If that is the only reason they are spending $15 a month, you have just sent them all away.

oh I doubt that very much. If you spend all your time shooting AI/building you wont stand a chance against players who do nothing but fight other players.

All that proves is there are a lot of people that like cheapy arcade style games that are free to play.

Bustr Im not berating nugetx, Im just explaining things as I see them with the experience of playing here for over a dozen years. What I have seen and heard from Hitech that things are NEVER added to the game just to add something to the game. It MUST add something to game play without hurting game play. Hitech has had the option for years to add micro trans actions be it money, credit or perk transfer and yet he hasn't. Everything I has seen him add to the game has promoted interaction between players, not the other way around where players are chasing AI.

I dont think anyone has a problem with him posting ideas. What most have an issue with is his tenacity even in the face of the owner/builder of the game shooting down his ideas. Post your idea, and let it go. Continuing to shout from the top of your box will more than likely get you ignored than a chance to have your idea see the light of day.

I politely call "BS" on that.  The owner has not shot him down and the No. 2 has welcomed these ideas even if they may not be implemented.  Meanwhile, people are hurling outright snark at the new guy for having an opinion/suggestion. 

[bustr]

Guys,

Nuget stopped playing the forum game for his ideas some time ago, now he is playing for keeping you answering him. He had his say and we got in trouble with Skuzzy for our responses, now it's just a game for him to have the last word and he has a high ground we gave him to play from. It costs him nothing to stay in the conversation while you guys agonize over one last attempt to prove him wrong at all costs. He is aware Hitech will not tell anyone his plans until just before he begins a new venture like any good game owner. Our game will not suddenly change next week, it will take Hitech a few years just like we went through getting AH3 live if he wanted to implement an AI ground war for short attention span younger players to shoot at and grind out rewards, ranks and self esteem.

No one knows what Hitech is going to do, and getting the last word in with this dead horse is making us look bad.

[Vraciu]

Guys,

Nuget stopped playing the forum game for his ideas some time ago, now he is playing for keeping you answering him. He had his say and we got in trouble with Skuzzy for our responses..

Deservedly so.

No one knows what Hitech is going to do, and getting the last word in with this dead horse is making us look bad.

People are making themselves look bad, and, by extension, the entire player base.   Don't blame it on abstracts. 

[The Fugitive]

I politely call "BS" on that.  The owner has not shot him down and the No. 2 has welcomed these ideas even if they may not be implemented.  Meanwhile, people are hurling outright snark at the new guy for having an opinion/suggestion.

Please read here....

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,387412.msg5149507.html#msg5149507

[Vraciu]

Please read here....

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,387412.msg5149507.html#msg5149507

Again, not a shoot down.   Hitech was very gracious in his reply to nugetx and in no way shot him down.  His ideas were welcomed by the people at HTC right here on these boards, including the post you cited.

One never knows where the next good idea might come from.

He has been very gracious in the face of an adversarial community.  I find the negative treatment of any new person to be disappointing.

Sure, I can edit those negative posts, but that does not fix the issue.  And no, the issue is not a new person making suggestions about the game.

The calls and emails I get with the phrase, "I am not posting on that board so they can brow beat me" is quite frustrating.

Do any of you see us at HTC verbally beating up people for posting ideas?